Hamblin's Moderated Blog

[_lulu]

I'm becoming increasingly convinced that the only thing that will shake some sense into them is formal Church discipline: disfellowshipping or excommunication. They won't listen to anything short of that. So I guess the question is: Was the Church more interested in doing this mainly for PR reasons--i.e., so that they could publicly divorce themselves from the "classic-FARMS" rhetoric? Or are they genuinely interested in curtailing the rhetoric?

It's all PR all the time.

Nobody wants an excommunications dust up during Mitt's Mormon Moment.

I think they will try to manage their way out of it with other techniques.

But I'm frequently wrong.

And you have a damn good track record.

[_NorthboundZax]

More likely, perhaps more scary, is the damage to Dan's academic reputation. I am not sure how BYU works, but I can't imagine his reaction and the reaction of his goon squad bodes well for his post in the Department of Asian and Near Eastern Languages.

I doubt there will be any negative impact there - maybe even positive impact. The Department of Asian and Near Eastern Languages might see themselves as beneficiaries to the mess as Dr. Peterson will now have more time to spend on his Near Eastern Languages work.

[_Tator]

I'm becoming increasingly convinced that the only thing that will shake some sense into them is formal Church discipline: disfellowshipping or excommunication. They won't listen to anything short of that. So I guess the question is: Was the Church more interested in doing this mainly for PR reasons--i.e., so that they could publicly divorce themselves from the "classic-FARMS" rhetoric? Or are they genuinely interested in curtailing the rhetoric?

There is another way, at least for some of them: termination of employment at BYU. Since BYU doesn't have an official tenure system, and since these guys are probably not the most popular on campus, termination is probably just as easy and will result in less bad press. Further, there are ready-made excuses for termination: lack of publication in peer reviewed journals and insubordination surrounding what BYU sees as a purely administrative decision (the dismantling of classic FARMS).

I'm not saying I agree with that option, but it is an option. And if I were those guys, I would make sure the resume is polished up and start calling in favors.

I suggest they terminate them by...well.... email.

[_Kevin Graham]

Firing dan by email was a disgrace and should be condemned by everyone. However, I can see why the exmormons here are in glee mood because of it. You all think that MI is heading for fall as it changes from apologetics to something more benign.

For the umpteenth time he wasn't fired via email. He was informed that his role with the organization would be changing, Dan is the one who threw a tantrum and then resigned. The only reason Dan is no longer with NAMIR, is because of Dan. And we already know Dan and Gerald had numerous draw out telephone and face to face conversations about this issue, but to no avail. So what would one more have done? How do we know Bradford "planned" to wait for Dan to go out of town before the decision was made? We don't know that. That is just something you idiots keep assuming and it is based on nothing more than Dan's own speculation. But people get fired via email all the time. Dan had it coming because he would never listen to the guy above him.

Incidentally I just got off the phone with an inside source who tells me Bradford is being dragged under the bus when it was never his idea. Bradford is only doing what he was told to do by those above him, and of course we know those above him are Church authorities.

[_Kevin Graham]

Dan thinks he is royalty and should be fired by royal court of sorts. He has already lied about this situation by first stating his wife told him he would be fired and then days later claiming he was caught by surprised and that it was "out of the blue."

The only thing we know for sure here is that Dan is dishonest and cannot be trusted. We also know his ego makes Jupiter look like an meteorite.

[_Shulem]

Incidentally I just got off the phone with an inside source who tells me Bradford is being dragged under the bus when it was never his idea. Bradford is only doing what he was told to do by those above him, and of course we know those above him are Church authorities.

It will be delicious to the taste when all those bastards over at the other board finally realize it was their beloved apostles and prophets that slew their king.

Oh I can hardly wait to watch all the jaws drop. It's priceless watching them foam like rabid dogs fit for the gas chamber.



Paul O

[_MCB]

Incidentally I just got off the phone with an inside source who tells me Bradford is being dragged under the bus when it was never his idea. Bradford is only doing what he was told to do by those above him, and of course we know those above him are Church authorities.

Absolutely no surprise at that.

[_the narrator]

Although Bill Hamblin posted John Dehlin’s reply on his blog, mine doesn’t seem to be making the cut (Hamblin moderates his blog’s activity). So for those interested, here is the reply that I submitted to Hamblin’s blog...

********************

For you, Bill, Bradford isn’t “a bad person,” but he is “a less than competent administrator” (“a view shared,” you tell us, “by MANY other people”).

You don’t merely “disagree” with Bradford you “disagree RADICALLY.” Bradford’s inability to contain all leaks within the Maxwell Institute doesn’t merely evince “negligence” but “DISASTROUS negligence.” His behavior in firing Dan Peterson isn’t just “shameful” it’s “ABSOLUTELY shameful.” Bradford’s initiation of a new vision isn’t just “immoral” it’s “FUNDAMENTALLY immoral,” not just “wrong” but “FUNDAMENTALLY wrong.”

“[A] less than competent administrator” who exhibits “disastrous negligence” and engages in “fundamentally immoral” behavior sounds like “a bad person” to me.

At what point does the “classic-FARMS” guard recognize that such acrimonious rhetoric has contributed to their now-official marginalization?

********************

My best,

</brent>

This was essentially the same comment I left on his blog. From what I understand, Bradford isn't against apologetics in general, but rather the pettiness exemplified in Bill's post.

[_Kevin Graham]

Over on Kerry's Facebook thread Hamblin says:

There is no reason to think Bradford leaked the information. He thinks anti-Mormons and apostates are largely idiots and not worthy of the attention of real academics. Which is one reason he thinks apologetics is a waste of time.

This is probably pure BS, and I wonder how Bradford would like knowing Bill is on the internet speaking on his behalf.

[_Kishkumen]

For the umpteenth time he wasn't fired via email. He was informed that his role with the organization would be changing, Dan is the one who threw a tantrum and then resigned. The only reason Dan is no longer with NAMIR, is because of Dan.

Thank you. I am past sick of hearing about the firing of a guy who still has his job and salary.

Incidentally I just got off the phone with an inside source who tells me Bradford is being dragged under the bus when it was never his idea. Bradford is only doing what he was told to do by those above him, and of course we know those above him are Church authorities.

Thanks again. Everyone loves the hierarchical nature of the Church until something happens that they don't like, then it is simply the fault of the purportedly incompetent bonehead closest to ground zero. Kinda like those folks in Iron County.