WTF? Now Mormons Believe in the Trinity?

[_bcspace]

Would you admit that President Newsroom is being squirrelly in answering this particular question?

There's no such thing as "President Newsroom".

Do you agree that Talmage's straightforward answer is a more clear description of Mormon doctrine on the matter?

And that answer is......?

Why do you think the Church answered the question this way?

I answered that in my previous to previous post.

[_bcspace]

That's because you don't actually know Mormonism.

I'm fairly certain Consig has rhetorically asked this question several times before. He's just trying to score points playing the devil's advocate or looking as if he's not sure. It does not pay to be sure of one's answers in communities like this and Consig milks it for all it's worth.

[_Drifting]

After 34-years as a member of the LDS Church, I just got informed that Mormons believe in the Trinity.

This is in complete contradiction to what I grew up hearing in the Church.

The strange thing is I didn't hear this from my Baptist neighbor down the street, or the Catholic across the street.

Instead, I have to hear it from the LDS Church's official website:

Do Mormons believe in the Trinity?

Mormons most commonly use the term “Godhead” to refer to the Trinity. The first article of faith for the Latter-day Saints reads: “We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.” Latter-day Saints believe God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are one in will and purpose but are not literally the same being or substance, as conceptions of the Holy Trinity commonly imply.

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/mormonism-101#C5

This attempt to try to mainstream Mormonism is a bit much for me.

First, when Mormons say "the Godhead," they are NOT referring to "the Trinity."

And the Holy Trinity does not "commonly imply" that the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are the same substance; it is an essential part of the creed.

Starting to get a bit sick of the whole PC thing.

Who exactly is it we are trying to impress?

Or fool?

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

In answer to the question "Do Mormons believe in the Trinity?" the newsroom article appears to answer "Yes but No".

Thanks for clearing that up LDS Newsroom...

[_Boilermaker]

DCP presented the same thing in a DN article a couple of years ago.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700065755/Daniel-C-Peterson-Mormons-and-the-Holy-Trinity.html?pg=all

This is not trying to impress or fool someone, it is lying plain and simple, and it is intended to lead people to believe that LDS and the rest of Christianity believe the same things.

I actually believe that Peterson is truthfully relating what Mormons believe with regards to the Godhead. All the term Trinity means is three persons who are completely one while also being three. The term Trinity has gone out of favor with modern Mormons, but it certainly was a term used in the 19th and early 20th century by Mormons to describe the Godhead. Mormons seem confused when it comes to what the term substance means in traditional Christianity -- it certainly has nothing to do with anything physical. Mormons say three beings when in reality they are using it the same way that traditional Christians say three persons. The traditional Christian complains that Mormons believe Heavenly Father has a physical body, but that has little to do with the point of the Nicene Creed which was meant to convey the belief that Jesus was always God in the same way the Father was always God -- it has nothing to do with whether or not the members of the Godhead have bodies. The Nicene Creed is discussing a spiritual reality, not a physical reality.

[_Mittens]

Yes Substance is just another name for Godhead
God- Godhead- Substance- Essence- being [ all Synonyms ] which is always ONE and persons is always three

[_madeleine]

The kicker is the 'a'.

Trinity doctrine: The Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God.

Mormon doctrine: The Father is a God, the Son is a God, the Holy Spirit is a God.

All the difference in the world.

[_Chap]

I'm not LDS, and don't have access to an LDS hymnbook.

But I seem to remember singing the LDS version of Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty and noticing that the words I was used to at the end of certain stanzas: "God in three persons, Blessed Trinity" being changed.

I thought at the time there was no mention of the Trinity, and instead a mention of Deity.

Would love if someone could check that!

(Haven't read this thread beyond the first couple of posts, so my apologies if anyone has raised this already.)

Yup. See:

http://blog.mrm.org/2011/08/three-little-words/

Published in 1826, Anglican Vicar Reginald Heber wrote Holy, Holy, Holy to be sung at his church during the observance of Trinity Sunday. Trinity Sunday, celebrated in Western liturgical churches, celebrates the central Christian doctrine of, as Mr. Heber wrote, “God in Three Persons, blessed Trinity.”

The Mormon Tabernacle Choir does not sing Mr. Heber’s words. The Choir performs its own interpretation which, of course, leaves out reference to the Trinity. Instead of singing the song as written, that is,

Holy, holy, holy! Lord God Almighty!
Early in the morning our song shall rise to Thee:
Holy, holy, holy! merciful and mighty!
God in Three Persons, blessed Trinity. (verse 1)

The Mormon interpretation is this:

Holy, holy, holy! Lord God Almighty!
Early in the morning our song shall rise to thee;
Holy, holy, holy! merciful and mighty!
God in His glory, blessed Deity! (verse 1)

This alteration is employed both times in the song where Mr. Heber wrote, “God in Three Persons, blessed Trinity.” I give the Mormon Tabernacle Choir credit for refraining from singing something the LDS Church says is “not true” (Jeffrey R. Holland, “The One True God and Jesus Christ Whom He Hath Sent,” Ensign, November 2007, 40). But this Mormon interpretation of the song, while only changing three little words, effectively eliminates the very heart of the hymn Reginald Heber penned.

And here is the Motab actually singing it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Hj9No9UfW8

Clearly whoever rewrote the words to that hymn did so for a reason. It appears to be an exclusively LDS redaction.

But hey folks! We got a President to elect here, and you wouldn't want the church to seem freaky, like it was different from other Christians, would you?

Get with the program! What are all these quibbles - ark steadying?

[_Mittens]

Joseph Smith said the Trinity is three gods.
"I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods," (Teachings of Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 370).

Joseph Smith disagrees with Christian Creeds and Book of Mormon


2 Nephi 31:
21And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.

Alma 11:
44 Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but everything shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.


Mormon 7:
7 And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end.

The Testimony of Three Witnesses
And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God. Amen.
Oliver Cowdery
David Whitmer
Martin Harris

Doctrine and Covenants 20 :
28 Which Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one God, infinite and eternal, without end. Amen.

[_consiglieri]

We have ALWAYS believed in the Trinity..... Just not technically the modern Nicene Creed version.



Certainly not you.... Although, the Church is likely trying to also educate you. But, in your pride you rebel and condemn.

The LDS Church has "educated" me for 34-years that the Trinity is the foremost Christian Creed considered an abomination in the sight of God.

To me, it is a mass of confusion.

What the Church website is trying to do now is not educate me, but re-educate me.

But primarily, it is following an increasingly frequent pattern of the LDS Church backing away from its distinctive doctrines in order to sound more like the mainstream Christianity it proclaims is in apostasy.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[_Boilermaker]

We have ALWAYS believed in the Trinity..... Just not technically the modern Nicene Creed version.



Certainly not you.... Although, the Church is likely trying to also educate you. But, in your pride you rebel and condemn.

The LDS Church has "educated" me for 34-years that the Trinity is the foremost Christian Creed considered an abomination in the sight of God.

To me, it is a mass of confusion.

What the Church website is trying to do now is not educate me, but re-educate me.

But primarily, it is following an increasingly frequent pattern of the LDS Church backing away from its distinctive doctrines in order to sound more like the mainstream Christianity it proclaims is in apostasy.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

It could also be said to be reclaiming some of the initial teachings of the Restoration. It all depends upon how you look at it.