Steven Covey Lifts up His Eyes in Hell

[_Kishkumen]

But taken as a whole, what is his assessment? His assessment is that these type of people are so wrong with God that they will end up in hell. Think about it.

Yeah, I did think about it. I did not agree with that. Your approach is to call him a deluded person who is talking to himself. That's a proven winner, I'm sure.

It is also not true that I have nothing but disdain for Nightlion. I would have given the same feedback if he were my son, father, or brother.

He deserves better than to be humored. Honest proportionate feedback.

Yeah, and I honestly don't see the world the way you do, so I don't view it as my job to tell the man that he is talking to himself and deluded. Your insistence that this is the case demonstrates disdain in my eyes. Furthermore, it is even less diplomatic than telling a dead man that he is going to hell. So there you have it. I am probably not going to be convinced in light of the evidence of your own words that you were not treating Nightlion with disdain.

[_Tarski]

I have been lambasting Mormons for their hypocrisy for more than forty years. Not one of them could touch me on doctrine. EVER. Not once.

According to you.
You make a contest of doctrinal understanding wherein you are not only a contestant but conveniently make yourself the judge also.
That is an easy contest.

You could hardly have failed to notice how they back off on this forum and will not engage. They have to pretend like I am not even here.

I don't think you understand why that is the case.

All the weight of right in terms of Mormon theology and gospel experience consistent with all scripture is on my side.

They got absolutely nothing but their pride and I have convicted them to the point that the Lord has forsaken them formally.

No he hasn't.

Tarski, you wont argue points of merit in a gospel discussion any more than they would.
I won.

You won in a contest in which you make yourself judge. (kinda too easy)
Personally, I don't think your scripture and doctrine analysis is the best.

I say of you that to deny God in this day and age

and you say this when the principal advantage our day affords us is scientific insight. Yet this is the one thing you are deficient on.

So it is even more obvious that there is a God and since I am the only preacher consistent with the ages of all his recorded dealings with mankind, I rule. Humble man that I am.

Once again, you set yourself up as the judge of who is consistent. Other equally qualified individuals think otherwise. Funny how that works. Get a living breathing independent judge on these matters to comment and it would be more interesting.

You're the one who is jealous when you see how effortlessly I can bring down these arrogant pretenders. I can flick them from my finger like so much rolled and dried nasal dust.

No one got brought down. That imagery was all in your head.

Have you heard of "delusions of grandeur".

Watch me. I can do it too in the area of poetry for example.

Nightlion always thinks he's great
But sometimes seems full of hate.
Roses are red, violets are blue.
I am humble and great too.
Watch how I pick a booger for you.

Behold! I just owned all other poets in existence! No poem is greater. How can you deny it?
(I won just now!)

[_Tarski]

Your approach is to call him a deluded person who is talking to himself.

OK, he is a guy who vocally condemns whole groups of religious people--implicitly the whole world really. He thinks he is essentially alone in being right with God, he thinks God is putting messages on the mountains for the world and specifically to condemn Mormons. Yet only he (the chosen one out of billions) can see them and interpret them-- because only he is worthy and right with God.

Perhaps you have better examples of being deluded.

Yeah, and I honestly don't see the world the way you do, so I don't view it as my job to tell the man that he is talking to himself and deluded. Your insistence that this is the case demonstrates disdain in my eyes.

I have disdain for the idea that Steven Covey deserves to be in hell. I have disdain for the idea that God puts real objective cartoon images on a mountain to condemn Mormons and for the idea that the only guy who sees these images is also the only guy who is right with God and the only guy who is qualified to pontificate about some true notion of zion.

Frankly I think you could only be pretending to have respect for such ideas.

Do you?

Furthermore, it is even less diplomatic than telling a dead man that he is going to hell.

He didn't tell a dead man. He publicly told all who would listen; living people.
I don't think the issue is one of diplomacy (or humoring) unless you think it best not to irritate James for your own safety in some future vaguely imagined circumstance. My guess is that he will let me have my opinion and would suspect me of insincerity if I said other than I have.

James sometimes seems to have a lot of heart and he has a way of making some people fee like routing for him even if they don't buy a word of his rants. But, this was an occasion to pull no punches if there ever was one.

[_Tchild]

Nightlion's whole attitude of self-righteous superiority (narcissism really) bothers me. I cannot deny it. It reminds me of the very worst of Mormonism. The part that I loathed and despised.

I don't see a prophet crying as in the wilderness. I see a little jealous child who uses religious language to belittle and berate another.

The prophets of the Bible (and the Book of Mormon) represent nothing more than the petty, self-righteous aspects of the tiny egoic mind. Full of vitriol and self loathing.

If there is a God, representatives of such a being could only be full of pure love and non-judgementalism, because that is all that God can be. Otherwise, they are wholly deluded. It is hate language cloaked in religious vernacular. Pure and simple.

[_Tarski]

The only thing certain is that I am the only living being upon the planet with something to say. AMEN. Every other sayer has had his day and nothing is said, nothing has been heard and certain as the end of the world, nothing has been done to bring forth and establish the cause of Zion. I might yet have a day or two in the Sun.

I re-read this and I have to say it sounds like despondency or depression. All is lost for the whole world?

Isn't it remotely possible that you are looking beyond the mark in all this?

It seems to me that there are better ways to find meaning.

Play the guitar.
Enjoy sunshine, colors, shadows and textures.
Talk with friends and laugh (we had good talks about YES music once.)
Forgive others and oneself.
Put love and artful care into cooking, dining, building and making love (if you can get it).
Party a bit.
Learn new things.
Practice.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

[_Kishkumen]

OK, he is a guy who vocally condemns whole groups of religious people--implicitly the whole world really. He thinks he is essentially alone in being right with God, he thinks God is putting messages on the mountains for the world and specifically to condemn Mormons. Yet only he (the chosen one out of billions) can see them and interpret them-- because only he is worthy and right with God.

Perhaps you have better examples of being deluded.

Yeah, I suppose being rude and insulting is a great way to persuade Nightlion that he is wrong! Brilliant, Tarski. No doubt your family members enjoy the very same approach.

Next time I need to navigate another person's feelings in handling a disagreement, I'll be sure to drop you a line to ask for your sage advice. I can see you excel at this kind of thing.

I have disdain for the idea that Steven Covey deserves to be in hell. I have disdain for the idea that God puts real objective cartoon images on a mountain to condemn Mormons and for the idea that the only guy who sees these images is also the only guy who is right with God and the only guy who is qualified to pontificate about some true notion of zion.

Frankly I think you could only be pretending to have respect for such ideas.

Do you?

I have enough respect for a fellow human being who is generally a decent person not to ridicule him in the guise of correcting him, as you clearly are. I pretend at nothing here, and the conclusions you jump to are not something I have to own.

He didn't tell a dead man. He publicly told all who would listen; living people.

Do you take it personally, Tarski? You seem pretty upset about it.

I don't think the issue is one of diplomacy (or humoring) unless you think it best not to irritate James for your own safety in some future vaguely imagined circumstance.

Then your imagination is clearly limited regarding this exchange, and you are predisposed to judge me as harshly as you judge Nightlion. Clearly I could only be motivated by cowardice, right? Sheesh.

My guess is that he will let me have my opinion and would suspect me of insincerity if I said other than I have.

James sometimes seems to have a lot of heart and he has a way of making some people fee like routing for him even if they don't buy a word of his rants. But, this was an occasion to pull no punches if there ever was one.

Yes, it was an atrocity of the worst kind. Undoubtedly your sensitivities concerning your hero Covey were tried beyond your tolerance. I am glad you felt you were able to take a principled stand against Nightlion's atrocious behavior. Kudos to you.

That still does not make me wrong for failing to join you. I am sorry that this sticks in your craw so. Hopefully we will be able to coexist in peace without me sharing your exact opinion about Nightlion and Covey. My fingers are crossed.

[_Nightlion]

I do not think the issue here is religion for Tarski. What seems to bother him my impugning the honors of men. An ideal man of honor like Covey is archetypical for all the esteemed honors men can garner to themselves in this life. To cast him headlong into the infernal pit as a trodden carcass under foot must give some pause to those whose hearts are set upon the honors of men and the praise of the world.

Let me just offer a word of advice to those still choosing. You know how your were told that a solid education was the foundation for a good life? Well as far as you can go with that will count for dick in the next life.

If you want a good life in eternity you got to plan for it and prepare for it and work the work that opens the doors and generates freedom and privilege and friends in high places and respect and confidence with those who own all the keys and can open all the doors. You get my drift?

A phoney diploma mill will not get you that solid foundation for this life. A phoney gospel of love-God-light will not open doors in eternity.
'Nuff said?

[_Nightlion]

The only thing certain is that I am the only living being upon the planet with something to say. AMEN. Every other sayer has had his day and nothing is said, nothing has been heard and certain as the end of the world, nothing has been done to bring forth and establish the cause of Zion. I might yet have a day or two in the Sun.

I re-read this and I have to say it sounds like despondency or depression. All is lost for the whole world?

Isn't it remotely possible that you are looking beyond the mark in all this?

It seems to me that there are better ways to find meaning.

Play the guitar.
Enjoy sunshine, colors, shadows and textures.
Talk with friends and laugh (we had good talks about YES music once.)
Forgive others and oneself.
Put love and artful care into cooking, dining, building and making love (if you can get it).
Party a bit.
Learn new things.
Practice.

Do you really suppose that my online time is the only dimension of my existence? It is my battle field where I mostly sow seeds that simmer on the back burner of a few. God will give the increase if all I can do is go out and compel the rabble off the street to fill up the Marriage Supper of the Lamb with guests since those invited thought it more important to acquire all the honors and wealth of this world. Perhaps a few here will dream dreams and see vision and faith begins. Who knew?

Listened to YOURS IS NO DISGRACE just the other day. Howe went off the charts in that video.

And I am not the ONLY one who sees The Apocalrock. You see it. This board can no more pretend that they don't.

[_Nightlion]

Once again, you set yourself up as the judge of who is consistent. Other equally qualified individuals think otherwise. Funny how that works. Get a living breathing independent judge on these matters to comment and it would be more interesting.

I do live in a world of my own. No doubt. Not that I love it. Do you know where I can find another equally qualified. Been wanting to find one for a long, long time.

Sorry if I am underwhelmed that one who doubts the existence of God thinks my analysis of scripture is not the best. Kind of like me looking at one of your great equations and telling you what's up......???? Ya know?