The Myth of Evil Brigham Young

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Well, you know, when you talk about thrusting a spear through a white woman and her black lover one can't help but assign a malicious intent on the orator, no? Brigham Young wasn't a good guy... That we know for sure.

- VRDRC

[_Themis]

Mormonism started out as a scam. Joseph Smith was good at changing the doctrines and practices to suit his needs at any moment. Brigham settled the doctrines more or less and turned the church into more of an institution. Still a scam.

Since BY was a convert he could be viewed as more of the duped then Joseph who knew he was making it up.

[_Themis]

You could argue that Brigham Young was responsible for the priesthood ban, whereas Joseph Smith allowed blacks. Like you said though it doesn't help their case.

I forgot about this one. I suspect this is probably the driving force for throwing Brigham under the bus.

The problem I see here is the core ideas of blacks being cursed and withheld from the priesthood originate with Joseph and the Book of Abraham. Joseph knowing he was making up BS never seemed to beholden to his own BS.

[_Themis]

Getting killed the way he did was the best thing that could have happened to Joseph Smith. It made him look like a martyr. Just imagine how they would have had to spin things if he just fell off the roof or died of syphilis or something like that.

Who was Zina? I wasn’t aware of her.

Are you sure it wasn't better for Mormonism then it was for Joseph? I don't think he would agree with you that him dying young was good for him.

[_Stormy Waters]

The problem I see here is the core ideas of blacks being cursed and withheld from the priesthood originate with Joseph and the Book of Abraham. Joseph knowing he was making up BS never seemed to beholden to his own BS.

I think Brigham was certainly worse, but I agree. Joseph Smith laid some of the framework. One certainly cannot put all of the blame for racism on Brigham Young.

[_Themis]

The problem I see here is the core ideas of blacks being cursed and withheld from the priesthood originate with Joseph and the Book of Abraham. Joseph knowing he was making up BS never seemed to beholden to his own BS.

I think Brigham was certainly worse, but I agree. Joseph Smith laid some of the framework. One certainly cannot put all of the blame for racism on Brigham Young.

Possibly but I think Aristotle Smith made a good case that Joseph was worse. He did start the con. BY was a convert.

[_son of Ishmael]

Getting killed the way he did was the best thing that could have happened to Joseph Smith. It made him look like a martyr. Just imagine how they would have had to spin things if he just fell off the roof or died of syphilis or something like that.

Who was Zina? I wasn’t aware of her.

Are you sure it wasn't better for Mormonism then it was for Joseph? I don't think he would agree with you that him dying young was good for him.

It was the best theing for him in the sense he is still a well known character in US history. Had he lived long enough to be proven a fraud he would have just been a footnote.

[_Stormy Waters]

Possibly but I think Aristotle Smith made a good case that Joseph was worse. He did start the con. BY was a convert.

I agree that overall Joseph Smith isn't any better than Brigham Young. To clarify I meant to say that strictly in terms of racist teachings by not allowing blacks full participation Brigham was marginally worse.

[_Yoda]

The problem I see here is the core ideas of blacks being cursed and withheld from the priesthood originate with Joseph and the Book of Abraham. Joseph knowing he was making up BS never seemed to beholden to his own BS.

Please show me the reference in the Book of Abraham that clarifies specifically that blacks should not receive the priesthood. Joseph Smith did allow a black man to receive the priesthood, if I recall correctly.

It was Brigham Young who initiated that specific policy. Up until that point, it was unclear. If BY had not initiated that policy, specifically, I believe that blacks would have been allowed to receive the priesthood. If is a policy that should have never been initiated in the first pace, and was put into place thanks to BY's prejudice.

[_Themis]

The problem I see here is the core ideas of blacks being cursed and withheld from the priesthood originate with Joseph and the Book of Abraham. Joseph knowing he was making up BS never seemed to beholden to his own BS.

Please show me the reference in the Book of Abraham that clarifies specifically that blacks should not receive the priesthood. Joseph Smith did allow a black man to receive the priesthood, if I recall correctly.

Abr 1:27. It doesn't say blacks, but it does bring up a lineage that was cursed from having the priesthood. BY did not really come up with this stuff all by himself, and I suspect Joseph didn't either.

It was Brigham Young who initiated that specific policy. Up until that point, it was unclear. If BY had not initiated that policy, specifically, I believe that blacks would have been allowed to receive the priesthood. If is a policy that should have never been initiated in the first pace, and was put into place thanks to BY's prejudice.

It was more then a policy(doctrine of the church), and Joseph was certainly where BY would have gotten some of his ideas even if Joseph may have borrowed his ideas as he usually did from the environment around him. Whether Joseph would have done the same as BY is not known, but he was known for not following his own rules so it would not surprise me that he ordained a person who was part black.