Boring dead drama is boring and dead

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
Post Reply
_MsJack
_Emeritus
Posts: 4375
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 5:06 am

Re: Pahoran's Abuse of Private Correspondence

Post by _MsJack »

Pahoran wrote:And the answer is: C, None of the above. I'm going to leave it up to your conscience. Let us see how highly you value the "sanctity" of PM's. If my posting of one sentence from a PM you "trusted" me with was such a horrendous violation, I want to see how your principles stack up.

My principle is that it is acceptable to quote private correspondence (a) when one has permission from the other participant(s) in the correspondence, or (b) when someone is misrepresenting what transpired over the course of a correspondence, especially when the party being misrepresented has tried to resolve the matter through other channels. Otherwise the private correspondence should stay private. "But you were rude to me in our private correspondence!" does not an excuse to violate privacy make.

Exhibit A. (Scholar gave permission.) Exhibit B. (Christian Leader was hesitant about giving permission, and ultimately decided not to grant it.)

So if you will not grant your permission directly, I will not post it. It doesn't matter how rude you were to me today (and you were very rude); I will not post it. If you do not quote snippets from the correspondence and misrepresent them (as you did with our MDDB correspondence), I will not post it.

Any questions?
"It seems to me that these women were the head (κεφάλαιον) of the church which was at Philippi." ~ John Chrysostom, Homilies on Philippians 13

My Blogs: Weighted Glory | Worlds Without End: A Mormon Studies Roundtable | Twitter
_why me
_Emeritus
Posts: 9589
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 8:19 pm

Re: Pahoran's Abuse of Private Correspondence

Post by _why me »

SteelHead wrote:One thing I am learning from this board: don't rumble with msj. She will pin you to the wall. And, she takes copius notes.


Also, don't send any PMs nor reveal your identity on any Mormon discussion board. You are bound to suffer the consequences.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith
_Chap
_Emeritus
Posts: 14190
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:23 am

Re: Pahoran's Abuse of Private Correspondence

Post by _Chap »

Reading Pahoran is so reassuring.

Whenever I am troubled by the suspicion that religious belief might be the only way some people can retain essential qualities of humanity and decency, he brings me back to the liberating perception that the possession or non-possession of religious belief has nothing whatsoever to do with whether or not someone is a decent person.

I do hope to see a lot more of him on this board.
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
_Drifting
_Emeritus
Posts: 7306
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:52 am

Re: Pahoran's Abuse of Private Correspondence

Post by _Drifting »

I may be slow on the uptake here but, Msjack, why on earth are you continuing having private dialogue of any sort with a piker (he will understand this) like Pahoran?

Why not just stop all contact?

I may be wrong (and obviously placing myself in harms way here) but it seems like you are a bit obsessive about him.
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
_Pahoran
_Emeritus
Posts: 1296
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 2:20 am

Re: Pahoran's Abuse of Private Correspondence

Post by _Pahoran »

MsJack wrote:My principle is that it is acceptable to quote private correspondence (a) when one has permission from the other participant(s) in the correspondence, or (b) when someone is misrepresenting what transpired over the course of a correspondence, especially when the party being misrepresented has tried to resolve the matter through other channels. Otherwise the private correspondence should stay private. "But you were rude to me in our private correspondence!" does not an excuse to violate privacy make.

But "you quoted one sentence of mine!" does. Got it.

Since your "principle" is neatly and tidily folded to wrap around this situation as you choose to see (or describe) it, why not break down and admit that it's really the case that it is acceptable to quote private correspondence whenever it suits the expediency of Ms Jack?

This is how people operate when they are following a real principle: they stick to it even when they feel like they've been provoked. Principles, you see, are bigger than moments.

MsJack wrote:So if you will not grant your permission directly, I will not post it. It doesn't matter how rude you were to me today (and you were very rude);

Since you feel that you are not violating your "principle" by expressing that opinion, I'll tell you that I've reviewed our correspondence and find that I probably was almost as rude as you in about half as many PM's as you were extremely rude to me.

MsJack wrote:I will not post it. If you do not quote snippets from the correspondence and misrepresent them (as you did with our MDDB correspondence),

In your completely impartial opinion, of course.

MsJack wrote:I will not post it.

Any questions?

Only one: Is that the end of your current vendetta, then?

Regards,
Pahoran
_why me
_Emeritus
Posts: 9589
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 8:19 pm

Re: Pahoran's Abuse of Private Correspondence

Post by _why me »

Pahoran is my hero. His posts on the FAIR board were very influential for me. I loved the way he fought back against the critics and he made their dubious tactics very clear to me. You are doing a good job, Pahoran.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith
_MsJack
_Emeritus
Posts: 4375
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 5:06 am

Re: Pahoran's Abuse of Private Correspondence

Post by _MsJack »

Drifting ~ This thread (and my PM to Pahoran) were both started months and months ago. Pahoran only responded to either yesterday. I've spent minimal time on either.

Pahoran ~ Do I have your permission to post our private correspondence from yesterday?

[ ] Yes

[ ] No

Still waiting for your answer. If you're so sure that your conduct with me was appropriate to the simple and polite request that I sent to you, then I don't see why you're punting the question.
"It seems to me that these women were the head (κεφάλαιον) of the church which was at Philippi." ~ John Chrysostom, Homilies on Philippians 13

My Blogs: Weighted Glory | Worlds Without End: A Mormon Studies Roundtable | Twitter
_Drifting
_Emeritus
Posts: 7306
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:52 am

Re: Pahoran's Abuse of Private Correspondence

Post by _Drifting »

MsJack wrote:Drifting ~ This thread (and my PM to Pahoran) were both started months and months ago. Pahoran only responded to either yesterday. I've spent minimal time on either.

Pahoran ~ Do I have your permission to post our private correspondence from yesterday?

[ ] Yes

[ ] No

Still waiting for your answer. If you're so sure that your conduct with me was appropriate to the simple and polite request that I sent to you, then I don't see why you're punting the question.


Thanks MSJ, I still don't think he's worth bothering with...
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
_MsJack
_Emeritus
Posts: 4375
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 5:06 am

Re: Pahoran's Abuse of Private Correspondence

Post by _MsJack »

Drifting wrote:Thanks MSJ, I still don't think he's worth bothering with...

You're not wrong.
"It seems to me that these women were the head (κεφάλαιον) of the church which was at Philippi." ~ John Chrysostom, Homilies on Philippians 13

My Blogs: Weighted Glory | Worlds Without End: A Mormon Studies Roundtable | Twitter
_Bob Loblaw
_Emeritus
Posts: 3323
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:26 am

Re: Pahoran's Abuse of Private Correspondence

Post by _Bob Loblaw »

MsJack wrote:
Drifting wrote:Thanks MSJ, I still don't think he's worth bothering with...

You're not wrong.


Hopefully, the lesson people will take from this is that it's not productive to interact with the bitter kiwi, especially not in private.
"It doesn't seem fair, does it Norm--that I should have so much knowledge when there are people in the world that have to go to bed stupid every night." -- Clifford C. Clavin, USPS

"¡No contaban con mi astucia!" -- El Chapulin Colorado
Post Reply