Book of Mormon "Hard Evidence"

[_Nightlion]

Joseph Smith could not keep from betraying his farm boy style when preaching up his best sermons. How come there is ZERO New York farm boy speak in the entire Book of Mormon? Can anyone fine just one?

Have you never read the original English text of the 1830 edition? It is riddled with New York farm boy speak, such as "they went a journeying" instead of "they journeyed."

Gosh darn you meen I am ignerent?
I got to look into that. You better not be exaggerating like maybe there is one, or two or three, catches.
There ought to be a fine apologetic some on this? Right?

[_Nightlion]

Is there a copy of the original Book of Mormon online somewhere? Please.

[_Tobin]

Is there a copy of the original Book of Mormon online somewhere? Please.

Yes

http://www.inephi.com/Search.htm

Have fun.

[_Nightlion]

Is there a copy of the original Book of Mormon online somewhere? Please.

Yes

http://www.inephi.com/Search.htm

Have fun.

Thanks. And I read two randomly chosen page #15 & 16. There was no incident of Farm Boy Speak. Not even a shadow of it.
BS

I will keep reading it.

[_krose]

Sounds a lot like Thomas Ferguson. His faith in the literal historicity of the Book of Mormon was once so solid, he was certain he would find plenty of Nephite artifacts if the church would just give him the funding to dig.

And so they did...

What trailing bits of spiritual power did this Thomas fella have? Probably none. Sooooooooooooooooooooooo?

Well, I don't know what those are (and don't really care to know), but since the failure of his archaeological efforts caused Ferguson to lose his testimony, perhaps you have him beat there.

[_Fence Sitter]

There are those who see a similarity between the Micmac language and the Book of Mormon characters that Joseph Smith copied down. That doesn't seem real likely, but it might be hard evidence if true. Of course it is just as likely Joseph Smith had access to Micmac characters and copied them.

http://inthecavityofarock.blogspot.com/ ... ormed.html

I am not sure how similarities constitutes hard evidence, especially when there is no translation of the Anthon transcript. "Hey look the characters look the same, how could Joseph have known?"

What ever happened to the stone tablet in your link that Dr. Jerry Ainsworth claimed was carved with "reformed Egyptian"? Seems to me that would be hard evidence.

[_Equality]

How come there is ZERO New York farm boy speak in the entire Book of Mormon? Can anyone fine just one?

Have you never read the original English text of the 1830 edition? It is riddled with New York farm boy speak, such as "they went a journeying" instead of "they journeyed."

Gosh darn you meen I am ignerent?
I got to look into that. You better not be exaggerating like maybe there is one, or two or three, catches.
There ought to be a fine apologetic some on this? Right?

So, you ask for even ONE example of New York farmboy speak, claiming there is ZERO. Then, when shown an example, you move the goalposts and say that showing one, two, or three is not enough and claim that because you don't see any on the two random pages you happened to read, there isn't any. Color me unimpressed.

The reason you don't generally see critics harping on this issue is that it really doesn't prove anything. Apologists have accepted the fact that there were 19th-century frontier idioms used in the original translation (most of which were removed in the 1837 edition). Robert F. Smith said "There are indeed a great many archaic and colloquial forms of English used by Joseph in translating the Book of Mormon, but such is well in line with the statement in II Nephi 31:3 " . . . the Lord God giveth light unto the understanding; for he speaketh unto man according to their language, unto their understanding." The apologists don't see it as a problem for a divine translation. The critics have lots of other things to point to that call into question a divine provenance for the Book of Mormon text, and a few colloquialisms--while interesting--are not dispositive.

[_Nightlion]

The reason you don't generally see critics harping on this issue is that it really doesn't prove anything. Apologists have accepted the fact that there were 19th-century frontier idioms used in the original translation (most of which were removed in the 1837 edition). Robert F. Smith said "There are indeed a great many archaic and colloquial forms of English used by Joseph in translating the Book of Mormon, but such is well in line with the statement in II Nephi 31:3 " . . . the Lord God giveth light unto the understanding; for he speaketh unto man according to their language, unto their understanding." The apologists don't see it as a problem for a divine translation. The critics have lots of other things to point to that call into question a divine provenance for the Book of Mormon text, and a few colloquialisms--while interesting--are not dispositive.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, There are none in the Book of Mormon I know. You moved the goal post citing the original and I suspected you were exaggerating. You still have yet to quote one, even one. Just quoting somebody saying something means nothin'

[_Drifting]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, There are none in the Book of Mormon I know. You moved the goal post citing the original and I suspected you were exaggerating. You still have yet to quote one, even one. Just quoting somebody saying something means nothin'

How is citing from the original Book of Mormon 'moving the goal posts'?

He gave you the quote, you lost. Suck it up.

[Guest]

The reason you don't generally see critics harping on this issue is that it really doesn't prove anything. Apologists have accepted the fact that there were 19th-century frontier idioms used in the original translation (most of which were removed in the 1837 edition). Robert F. Smith said "There are indeed a great many archaic and colloquial forms of English used by Joseph in translating the Book of Mormon, but such is well in line with the statement in II Nephi 31:3 " . . . the Lord God giveth light unto the understanding; for he speaketh unto man according to their language, unto their understanding." The apologists don't see it as a problem for a divine translation. The critics have lots of other things to point to that call into question a divine provenance for the Book of Mormon text, and a few colloquialisms--while interesting--are not dispositive.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, There are none in the Book of Mormon I know. You moved the goal post citing the original and I suspected you were exaggerating. You still have yet to quote one, even one. Just quoting somebody saying something means nothin'

How did I move the goal post by citing the 1830 edition? That's the one that Joseph Smith wrote. It's the one that contained the "farmboy" colloquialisms the supposed lack of which you cited as some kind of triumph for the Book of Mormon. Here are several. I am not going to read the entire 1830 edition for you and cite every instance of this. These are enough to disprove your claim that there were ZERO in the Book of Mormon. Here is a question for you--why did Joseph Smith and the church later change the original wording? Is it not a sign that they were embarrassed by it?

As I was a journeying to see a very near kindred, behold an angel of the Lord appeared unto me, and said, Amulek, return to thine own house . . .

to his astonishment, he met with the sons of Mosiah, a journeying towards the land of Zarahemla.

And thus ended the record of Alma, which was wrote upon the plates of Nephi.

And now there was seven Churches in the land of Zarahemla.

And it came to pass that they did appoint judges to rule over them, or to judge them according to the law; and this they done throughout all the land.

nevertheless they departed out of the land of Zarahemla, and took their swords, and their spears, and their bows, and their arrows, and their slings; and this they done that they might provide food for themselves while in the wilderness

And it came to pass that the people of Nephi did till the land, and raise all manner of grain, and of fruit, and flocks of herds, and flocks of all manner of cattle, of every kind, and goats, and wild goats, and also much horses.

I love this one. Not only does Nephi raise grain, fruit, "flocks" of herds and cattle, but also wild goats and, of course, "much horses."

Edited to correct a typo. HT to Tobin.