Joanna Brooks: The Long March Continues

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_Chap
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Re: Joanna Brooks: The Long March Continues

Post by _Chap »

Droopy wrote:I posted it again, moving the OP out of the Telestial, just to see if I could get a serious, civil, intellectually substantive discussion/debate going on the subject. The OP invites that and that is what I wanted.

I see, however, that that's just not going to be possible, even the second time around.

Your post is important to us.

At the moment all our civil intellectuals are engaged in other discussion/debates.

Please hold on, and one of our representatives will be with you shortly.
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
_Jason Bourne
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Re: Joanna Brooks: The Long March Continues

Post by _Jason Bourne »

Droopy wrote:I posted it again, moving the OP out of the Telestial, just to see if I could get a serious, civil.......

You are not civil.
_Droopy
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Re: Joanna Brooks: The Long March Continues

Post by _Droopy »

At the moment all our civil intellectuals are engaged in other discussion/debates.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_Jason Bourne
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Re: Joanna Brooks: The Long March Continues

Post by _Jason Bourne »

Why I bother responding I do not know. I must be a glutton for punishment.

It is indeed a dilemma for the Church is it not? As noted before, things are changing.


No. Its a dilemma for those who will not accept, keep, and defend the teachings and doctrines of the Church.


No it is a dilemma for the Church. What is the Church to do with such persons? It seems to have chosen to pretty much leave them alone. So unlike what happened in the early 1990s. How the Church reacts to such will make a big difference as to how the Church looks in the future.


It is a "dilemma" for those who are not valiant and do not have adequate oil in their lamps as the wedding feast approaches. The Church will move on without them, if it is their desire to remain behind in Babylon.


How so? How is it a dilemma for those YOU term as not valiant?

I see concern by leaders about the youth in a different way than I ever have. Young adults are less active. They are less likely to toe the line. They put off marriage longer and are having fewer children.


The dilemma then - whether to let of the iron rod and wander off (on strange roads) is theirs, not the Church's.


Droopy, do you view yourself and a mighy warrior for the cause of truth? I mean really do you? Do you view everyone who varies from your dogmatic narrow little view of things as your enemy who you must deal with harshly?

Do you have a calling in the Church? Do you home teach those who are less active? Do you talk to them this way?

Tell me what do you think of this by one of the LDS apostles who you claim to follow?
From M. Russell Ballard's 'Doctrine of Inclusion'.

"I have never taught—nor have I ever heard taught—a doctrine of exclusion. I have never heard the members of this Church urged to be anything but loving, kind, tolerant, and
benevolent to our friends and neighbors of other faiths. The Lord expects a great deal from us. Parents, please teach your children and practice yourselves the principle of inclusion of others and not exclusion because of religious, political, or cultural differences."

https://www.LDS.org/general-conference/ ... ook-shared


Don't dodge the question. It applies to how you approach Dehlin and Brooks. It applies to those you love to hate here.

They are more tolerant of diversity.


Was it really necessary to regurgitate formatted pop leftist can't?


Is it really necessary for you to spew your dogmatic vile crap that constantly comes out of your mouth?


What will the Church look like in 20 years? It certainly does not look like it did when I was young.


Looks the same to me, except that those who are truly faithful and enduring to the end are even stronger and more determined than when I was young.


We should start a thread about this. I think you either don't get out much or you are in denial.

Lots of the strong rhoetoric has been abandoned. The lessons are milk toast elementary school lessons.


The lessons have been geared to the consequences both of the destruction of the pubic schools, and consequent debasement of reading comprehension skills and a post-literate, more visually oriented society, as well as to the fact that the fundamental doctrines need, at this time, to be restated and re-internalized over and over again until they sink in


You really think the lessons have become so painfully boring and simple because of the problems of the public schools? You think the LDS Church correlation committee is approving the pablum that passes off as priesthood manuals because it thinks people are stupid? As for the last part sure basics are important but not near the level we have it at now.

On the other hand people like you need to read Elder Ballards remarks over and over and over. They have not sunk in yet. Read the talk five times before you post on this board again.

The Church backpeddles (I am sure Droopy will disagree) from some of its more deep and different doctrines. Just check out Mormonism 101:


Yes, its pure self-justificational nonsense, but if it works for you, please indulge in it to your heart's content.


In other words you cannot respond with anything other than more denigrating personal attacks. How typical.



Well we will see. Will the Church retrench? Will it eventually take a hard line stance against the Dehlins, Brooks and evevn the Bushmans and Givens?


That depends upon what lines they eventually step over, the unique conditions of each case, and what the Spirit directs.


To date the leaders have chosen to leave such alone. I predict they will continue to do so. And the Church will change because of it. Just as it has in the past.

Will the hard liners win? Maybe? If yes the Church will be much smaller I think.


The "hardliners?" Even the light which you once had, Jason, will be lost. That's the inevitable pattern and procedure.


More personal attacks and irrelevent. Again you cannot defend so you attack. But no Droopy I have more light. Once I cast off the dogmatic dark scales that I had over my eyes I saw the world as a wonderful place rather than there being some boogy man under every rock. Try it. You will be happier. Cast off your narrow little minded world view Droopy.

Or will it become more open tent like and progressive and tolerant of diversity?


Doctrine and Covenants 1:31


Only fanatics label diversity as sin....oh wait...yep.

Matthew 7:14


Keep looking Droop. If the fruits you exhibit are the gate I think you have the wrong gate.

If yes it certainly will lose a lot of what it is or has been. Course one thing is certain. The LDS Church has changed and modified over its short history a number of times and has done so to survive grow and thrive. I think it will do so again and again.


Squirt ink with abandon, Jason. You will have your reward.


More personal attacks Droopy. You lose. You have nothing to say but vindictive platitudes. Why are you such an angry little man?
Last edited by Lem on Sat Aug 11, 2012 1:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
_Darth J
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Re: Joanna Brooks: The Long March Continues

Post by _Darth J »

Droopy wrote:
So why are you so enraged about persecution of Mormons a century before you were born?


I'm not. What on earth gave you that idea? What I was engaged about was you're turning the victims into perpetrators, perpetrators into victims, and implying the Mormons in Missouri brought the persecutions and extermination order upon themselves by being violent and behaving in a consistently criminal and belligerent manner.

You've now exposed yourself as a revisionist whitewasher of one of the most egregious breakdowns of constitutional order and law in American history, and I'm afraid you're going to have to live with it. Of course, the people at whom this utter breakdown of law and order was aimed are the very same people and the same religious organization you'd like to see defamed and destroyed today, so the need to vicariously identify with them is strong.

You're slavering hatred for the Church - and its people - has been crystal clear for a very long time, V. But then, this kind of unbridled animus has long been a traditional feature of the classic apostate pattern.

It has a long and well attested history.


What I was engaged about was you're turning the victims into perpetrators, perpetrators into victims, and implying the blacks in America brought the persecutions and extermination order upon themselves by being violent and behaving in a consistently criminal and belligerent manner.

You've now exposed yourself as a revisionist whitewasher of one of the most egregious breakdowns of constitutional order and law in American history, and I'm afraid you're going to have to live with it. Of course, the people at whom this utter breakdown of law and order was aimed are the very same people and the same civil rights organization you'd like to see defamed and destroyed today, so the need to vicariously identify with them is strong.

Your slavering hatred for black people has been crystal clear for a very long time, Droopy. But then, this kind of unbridled animus has long been a traditional feature of the classic racist pattern.

It has a long and well attested history.
_Droopy
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Re: Joanna Brooks: The Long March Continues

Post by _Droopy »

No it is a dilemma for the Church.


No, only the apostate from the Church has a dilemma to contend with, not the Church.

What is the Church to do with such persons?


Nothing, unless they step over a certain line into an excommunicable transgression, and even then, those things go on a case by case basis.

The wheat and the tares will grow together until the very end. No matter how many times this is stated, you still seem to fixate upon the "What is the Church going to do with them" meme. Some virgins will have their lamps trimmed and full at the wedding feast, and many others will not.

It seems to have chosen to pretty much leave them alone. So unlike what happened in the early 1990s. How the Church reacts to such will make a big difference as to how the Church looks in the future.


The Church is true. How it "looks" to Babylon is irrelevant. It is not going to change, modify, alter or remake itself for you, Joanna Brooks, Michael Quinn, or anybody else.

How so? How is it a dilemma for those YOU term as not valiant?


If the Church is true, and they choose not to participate in it and accept its doctrines and ordinances, then they will have restored to them in the resurrection what they were willing to receive in this life, as great or as small and diminished as that may be.

Droopy, do you view yourself and a mighy warrior for the cause of truth? I mean really do you? Do you view everyone who varies from your dogmatic narrow little view of things as your enemy who you must deal with harshly?


Please, indulge yourself, Bishop.

Do you have a calling in the Church?


Yes, I'm the branch missionary.

Do you home teach those who are less active?


Yes. They just reorganized the home teaching routes and I have four new inactive families.

Do you talk to them this way?


No, and I have never been talked to the way I'm talked to here by any inactive families I've ever home taught. I have never really met any anti-Mormon apostates, as exist here in the Internet world in concentrated form, in that capacity, save a couple of times, many years ago, and those meetings were brief, and it was made clear that no contact with the Church was desired. That was the end of that.

Tell me what do you think of this by one of the LDS apostles who you claim to follow?
From M. Russell Ballard's 'Doctrine of Inclusion'.

"I have never taught—nor have I ever heard taught—a doctrine of exclusion. I have never heard the members of this Church urged to be anything but loving, kind, tolerant, and benevolent to our friends and neighbors of other faiths. The Lord expects a great deal from us. Parents, please teach your children and practice yourselves the principle of inclusion of others and not exclusion because of religious, political, or cultural differences."

https://www.LDS.org/general-conference/ ... usion?lang


Don't dodge the question. It applies to how you approach Dehlin and Brooks. It applied to those you love to hate here.


I see no relevance whatsoever here within the context of the Good Samaritan and to being tolerant and friendly toward people of other faiths and who do not belong to the Church to my long articulated criticism of those who are attempting to introduce and import incompatible and inconsistent doctrines, teachings, ideological beliefs, and philosophies from the world into the Church, and to dilute its revealed doctrines and shepard a convergence between the Church and the surrounding secular culture.

I agree with everything Elder Ballard has said. But there's a bit more to it than that. You're not going to be able to silence the apologetics movement by taking the words of the Brethren out of context and deploying them as a moral club, leaving people like John Dehlin on their soap box unchallenged and unopposed in the marketplace of ideas.

Been there, seen that.

You really think the lessons have become so painfully boring and simple because of the problems of the public schools? You think the LDS Church correlation committee is approving the pablum that passes off as priesthood manuals because it thinks people are


In your churlish, arrogant presumption of authority to sit in judgement of the Lord's anointed servants, you may prate and prattle all you wish about things such as this, and clearly, you have not serious thought it through at all. Fortunately, these things are not up to you, or other "wolves" in sheep's clothing like you, pretending to be concerned for the welfare of the Church when in reality, you are seeking to transform it to more closely resemble your own golden calf-like likeness.

So the rest of the blah, blah, blah, and more self righteous blah, blah, blah, was snipped, and here it will end.
Last edited by Guest on Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:49 am, edited 2 times in total.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_Droopy
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Re: Joanna Brooks: The Long March Continues

Post by _Droopy »

What I was engaged about was you're turning the victims into perpetrators, perpetrators into victims, and implying the blacks in America brought the persecutions and extermination order upon themselves by being violent and behaving in a consistently criminal and belligerent manner.


If you have to baldly lie in this brazen and bombastic a manner, at least try to make your slanderous deceptions believable.

Your slavering hatred for black people has been crystal clear for a very long time, Droopy.


Of course, no such "hatred," or any negativity whatsoever, exists in my mind as to black people - unlike your perception of Latter day Saints.

But then, this kind of unbridled animus has long been a traditional feature of the classic racist pattern.


You've got quite a long posting history of animus, and at a fever pitch, toward the Church, its leaders, and those who defend it intellectually. On the other hand, I've never said anything about blacks other than to hope for their success and achievement.

Oh, I have been very critical about those things that have been holding a certain segment of them back for decades, including many of their "leaders," grievance ideology, racism and racial separatism, Afrocentrism and black power ideology, and much of black pop culture, but that's another story entirely, and has nothing whatsoever to do with race.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_Darth J
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Re: Joanna Brooks: The Long March Continues

Post by _Darth J »

Droopy wrote:You've got quite a long posting history of animus, and at a fever pitch, toward the Church, its leaders, and those who defend it intellectually. On the other hand, I've never said anything about blacks other than to hope for their success and achievement.

Oh, I have been very critical about those things that have been holding a certain segment of them back for decades, including many of their "leaders," grievance ideology, racism and racial separatism, Afrocentrism and black power ideology, and much of black pop culture, but that's another story entirely, and has nothing whatsoever to do with race.


You've got quite a long posting history of animus, and at a fever pitch, toward black people, their leaders, and those who defend their civil rights. On the other hand, I've never said anything about the LDS Church other than to point out its dissembling and failure to hold itself to its own standards.

Oh, I have been very critical about those things that have been holding a certain segment of them back for decades, including many of their "leaders," grievance ideology, racism and racial separatism, solipsism and "All your base are belong to us" ideology, and much of Mormon pop culture, but that's another story entirely, and has nothing whatsoever to do with LDS people.
_moksha
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Re: Joanna Brooks: The Long March Continues

Post by _moksha »

I saw the program tonight on the Daily Show. Best LDS interview of the year. Joanna Brooks was able to provide the most humanizing portral of an LDS person in a long time.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
_ludwigm
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Re: Joanna Brooks: The Long March Continues

Post by _ludwigm »

DarkHelmet wrote:
Darth J wrote:[*quote="Droopy"] plural marriage (legal, at the time) [*/quote]Droopy, tell me the name of the state or territory of the U.S. that has ever recognized the legal validity of plural marriage.

He will probably quote D&C 132. The law of god Trump's all other laws.


In another thread LittleNipper wrote :
"GOD's LAW overrides what a government decides" so Droopy have helpers outside of thechurch.
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco
- To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
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