Spalding Theory -- Mormonleaks.com

[_Tobin]

So don't pray about it? I'm confused what you want exactly.

Dedicate your life to doing what God wants and seeking him and we'll talk in 30 years. That is that is the attitude it takes. You seem to think God is going to answer you because you are going to say a prayer. Hardly. God knows you. Don't think for an instant you can fool God and believe that he'll just answer you because you demand it. It isn't likely to happen.

Does it really take 30 years to accomplish the self-delusion?

I'm talking about the attitude that one must be prepared to follow and do whatever God asks no matter what. It is entirely between you and God and you must work out your own salvation and relationship with God. But, without that attitude, I don't see how success is possible. This is the mindset one must have when dealing with such matters. Do you really suppose you can just make demands of God to answer you and not be prepared to do what God says. This wishy-washy attitude of I'll give it a try is what is unlikely to be successful as I stated and is often expressed by those who are disappointed that God didn't answer them.

[_Polygamy-Porter]

Tobin KNOws the Book of Mormon to be the word of God because... oh yeah his parents told him this, and his primwarry teeecha.

And Bro Tobin KNOws what god wants him to do because... god spoke to him?


What if god does not want any credit for the good things I do on earth and asks me to not mention him or worship him?

[_Chap]

Tobin KNOws the Book of Mormon to be the word of God because... oh yeah his parents told him this, and his primwarry teeecha.
...

Come on now, pay attention. Tobin has told you that he knows the Book of Mormon to be the word of God because a whole bunch of neurons in his head made him have a funny turn so he thought a deity came and spoke to him. (Well, he did miss out the bit about the neurons, so I have put it in to make things clearer)

How do I know to a practical certainty that my fuller version is true?

Well, it has happened to other people. And which is more likely - that Tobin's brain suffered a well-known malfunction that has affected others the same way, or that the creator of heaven and earth really did select Tobin out of all creatures to reassure that despite all the evidence to the contrary Joseph Smith was a prophet, and the Book of Mormon is true?

Place your bets, ladies and gentlemen!

[_Harold Lee]

I wouldn't call it a brain malfunction or temporal lobe epilepsy just yet as those as very certain terms and the way the human mind processes emotions is enormously complex.

We can certainly agree though it's neurological, and people from all religions have them. I heard a Muslim say once she never felt right celebrating Christmas and when she stopped she knew in her heart she was doing the right thing and felt more at peace than she ever had. It's all in the head.

[_Themis]

Well, it has happened to other people. And which is more likely - that Tobin's brain suffered a well-known malfunction that has affected others the same way, or that the creator of heaven and earth really did select Tobin out of all creatures to reassure that despite all the evidence to the contrary Joseph Smith was a prophet, and the Book of Mormon is true?

Add in he didn't even come close to 30 years of dedication and wasn't even dedicated at the time. Supposedly the opposite.

[_Themis]

Seth Payne mentioned in another thread that he does not put much stock in the spaulding theory. I have recently been going through the episodes at mormonleaks.com (by the way, downloading the pdfs makes for a much quicker review of the episodes). I find the proposed theory there to be quite persuasive. I am interested in what the best arguments are against Manuscript Found's involvement as well as arguments against the other possibilities suggested at Mormonleaks. The site goes through incredible detail in its effort to persuade and it seems to really be on to something.

It's an interesting theory with some evidence, but not enough at this time in my opinion.

[_keithb]

Harold,

You can't understand the entirety of the movie Rocky in just one viewing. Dedicate your life to the movie, watching it every day consistently throughout your life. You should even take two years off work to spread the good news about the movie to fellow movie goers, financed through your life savings.

After you have done that for 30 years, we can talk about whether the movie Rocky is true or not.

Will it help to give you 10% of my income for 30 years? I don't feel like carrying around all those cumbersome zeroes and commas on my bank statements.

10% of your income would be a good start. Actually, I think that you should promise "all that you now possess or may possess" to the cause.

Also, possibly your current wife as a second wife to me ... because otherwise Rocky will be killed with a flaming sword.

[_DrW]

Have to admit, I am a fan of the Spaulding Theory. Craig Criddle has put together a very believable narrative, which has more supporting evidence than any alternative I have seen. One piece I liked was the contemporary receipt book page with both Spaulding and Rigdon entered as patrons having picked up mail at the same post office at near the same time - pretty good evidence that their paths crossed.

The hypothesis has good explanatory power, and has been shown to have predictive power as well. Both are features one should look for in selecting the best hypothesis.

Best of all - no need to invoke angels, or magical spectacles, or seer stones, or non-existant gold plates.

[_Sethbag]

So don't pray about it? I'm confused what you want exactly.

Dedicate your life to doing what God wants and seeking him and we'll talk in 30 years. That is that is the attitude it takes. You seem to think God is going to answer you because you are going to say a prayer. Hardly. God knows you. Don't think for an instant you can fool God and believe that he'll just answer you because you demand it. It isn't likely to happen.

So, you're going to go down to the MTC and tell them they're all just wasting their time? Because, you know, God is never going to tell some family that the Book of Mormon is true and they should let the missionaries baptize them just because the missionaries taught them for an hour or two and then had them say a prayer, right?

[_Chap]

So don't pray about it? I'm confused what you want exactly.

Dedicate your life to doing what God wants and seeking him and we'll talk in 30 years. That is that is the attitude it takes. You seem to think God is going to answer you because you are going to say a prayer. Hardly. God knows you. Don't think for an instant you can fool God and believe that he'll just answer you because you demand it. It isn't likely to happen.

So, you're going to go down to the MTC and tell them they're all just wasting their time? Because, you know, God is never going to tell some family that the Book of Mormon is true and they should let the missionaries baptize them just because the missionaries taught them for an hour or two and then had them say a prayer, right?

Actually, research may mean we can all talk with our favorite deity when we want to, without a tedious 30-year wait to see if the symptoms develop spontaneously:

A new model of chronic temporal lobe epilepsy induced by electrical stimulation of the amygdala in rat

Epilepsy Research
Volume 38, Issue 2 , Pages 177-205, February 2000

Abstract

Spontaneous seizures are the hallmark of human epilepsy but they do not occur in most of the epilepsy models that are used to investigate the mechanisms of epilepsy or to test new antiepileptic compounds. This study was designed to develop a new focal epilepsy model that mimics different aspects of human temporal lobe epilepsy (TLE), including the occurrence of spontaneous seizures. Self-sustained status epilepticus (SSSE) lasting for 6–20 h was induced by a 20–30 min stimulation of the lateral nucleus of the amygdala (100 ms train of 1 ms, 60 Hz bipolar pulses, 400 μA, every 0.5 s). Stimulated rats (n=16) were monitored with a video-EEG recording system every other day (24 h/day) for 6 months, and every other video-EEG recording was analyzed. Spontaneous epileptic seizures (total number 3698) were detected in 13 of the 15 animals (88%) after a latency period of 6 to 85 days (median 33 days). Four animals (31%) had frequent (697–1317) seizures and 9 animals (69%) had occasional seizures (1–107) during the 6-months follow-up period. Fifty-seven percent of the seizures occurred during daytime (lights on 07:00–19:00 h). At the end of the follow-up period, epileptic animals demonstrated impaired spatial memory in the Morris water-maze. Histologic analysis indicated neuronal loss in the amygdala, hippocampus, and surrounding cortical areas, and mossy fiber sprouting in the dentate gyrus. The present data indicate that focal stimulation of the amygdala initiates a cascade of events that lead to the development of spontaneous seizures in rats. This model provides a new tool to better mimic different aspects of human TLE for investigation of the pathogenesis of TLE or the effects of new antiepileptic compounds on status epilepticus, epileptogenesis, and spontaneous seizures.

Alas those rats can't talk, so we don't know how many of them are now convinced that the Book of Mormon is true. But if they start squeaking at missionaries we shall know that their hearts have been turned to the Gospel, and it's time to construct rodent-sized baptismal fonts ...