Instantaneous long-distance travel of LDS gods

[_Tobin]

Tobin,

Sorry, my friend, but between you and me, the one who is demonstrating an embarrassing lack of understanding when it comes to basic physics is not me.

In the last couple of days lulu and I (and probably others) have have pointed out to you the irrelevance of the expansion of space-time at large distances with regard to your assertion that FTL travel / communication is possible (or is indeed going on as we speak).

If you don't yet understand that the aggregated expansion of space-time over large distances does not equate to, allow, or have anything to do with, FTL communication or travel (in terms of the speed of light as propagated / measured within space time), then I cannot help you.

Before you come back here and embarrass yourself further, try Googling the term "Apparent FTL". When you do, please note that this is distinct from FTL.

According to what you understand about the Big Bang, did the universe expand FASTER than the speed of light and are parts of the universe expanding away from us now FASTER than the speed of light? Yes or no. And DrW, I will continue to ask you this question till you answer it.

[_DrW]

Tobin,

Sorry, my friend, but between you and me, the one who is demonstrating an embarrassing lack of understanding when it comes to basic physics is not me.

In the last couple of days lulu and I (and probably others) have have pointed out to you the irrelevance of the expansion of space-time at large distances with regard to your assertion that FTL travel / communication is possible (or is indeed going on as we speak).

If you don't yet understand that the aggregated expansion of space-time over large distances does not equate to, allow, or have anything to do with, FTL communication or travel (in terms of the speed of light as propagated / measured within space time), then I cannot help you.

Before you come back here and embarrass yourself further, try Googling the term "Apparent FTL". When you do, please note that this is distinct from FTL.

According to what you understand about the Big Bang, did the universe expand FASTER than the speed of light and are parts of the universe expanding away from us now FASTER than the speed of light? Yes or no. And DrW, I will continue to ask you this question till you answer it.

And I will continue to tell you that the answer to your question, regardless, is absolutely irrelevant to your claims regarding the possibility of FTL travel or communication.

Now, please go look up "Apparent FTL", read carefully, and return and report.

You can bet that others reading this thread already understand "apparent FTL" or will be looking it up soon. Each one of these folks is one more person who knows that you are in over your head here.

[_Chap]

... DrW, I will continue to ask you this question till you answer it.

Then Tobin may have to wait for a while yet.

Few people on this board familiar with Tobin and DrW are likely to take DrW's reluctance to engage in further dialog as a confession of ignorance.

[_lulu]

Tobin,

The rate of expansion of the universe is not comparable to the speed of travel of light.

[_Uncle Dale]

, try Googling the term "Apparent FTL". When you do, please note that this is distinct from FTL.

OK -- I'll bite.

Suppose that I was able to construct a truly gigantic
pair of scissors in outer space -- say, with blades the
length of interplanetary intervals. Perhaps solid objects,
or perhaps laser beams, or whatever was required.

And then suppose that I had some mechanism
available that snapped those two blades closed
at wonderfully great speed. Perhaps each scissor
blade could move at 3/4 the speed of light for
a few moments.

The intervening space would diminish rapidly as
the scissors closed. The two blades would then
be approaching each other at a speed faster
than that of light moving in a vacuum.

Would that constitute "Apparent FTL".

???

UD

[_DrW]

, try Googling the term "Apparent FTL". When you do, please note that this is distinct from FTL.

OK -- I'll bite.

Suppose that I was able to construct a truly gigantic
pair of scissors in outer space -- say, with blades the
length of interplanetary intervals. Perhaps solid objects,
or perhaps laser beams, or whatever was required.

And then suppose that I had some mechanism
available that snapped those two blades closed
at wonderfully great speed. Perhaps each scissor
blade could move at 3/4 the speed of light for
a few moments.

The intervening space would diminish rapidly as
the scissors closed. The two blades would then
be approaching each other at a speed faster
than that of light moving in a vacuum.

Would that constitute "Apparent FTL".

???

UD

Yes. Well, maybe. Depends on where the observer is located (in space or on one of the scissor blades). If the observer is in space then he sees two objects (or points on those objects), each moving toward the other at 3/4c, and the distance between those points is diminishing at a rate faster than the speed of light (as you say).

If the observed is riding on one of the scissor blades then he sees the other blade approaching at something more than 3/4c but not at a speed greater than c, because the observer's clock has slowed down, according the the reference frame of the observer in space. (In this simple thought experiment we are not in a gravitational field and the scissor blades or not accelerating.)

Note that because of time dilation, an observer on one blade of the scissors cannot communicate with an observer on the other blade at FTL speeds.

Also remember that in practice, what you are doing when you close the "laser" version of your scissors is propagating a wave along the two light beams, the far end does not move instantaneously with the "control end". This is also the case for very long mechanical devices.

One can imagine a number of Apparent FTL set-ups. "Superluminal scissors" is one of them.

Tobin's claim of FTL among receding galaxies is another.

These two examples qualify as "apparent FTL" for two different reasons.

[_Uncle Dale]

...
One can imagine a number of Apparent FTL set-ups.
...

I put this question to the smartest LDS fellow I know.
Granted, he's only in his second year of college and is
only an elder in the Church -- but I sent him links to
what we've been saying and he looked it all over today.

His answer --- "Heavenly Father moves and gives us
revelation in the same way that galaxies attract one
another across empty space. Gravity is immediate and
so is our contact with Heavenly Father."

I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean -- (something
along the lines of the mass of a distant galaxy suddenly being
converted into pure energy and its diminished gravitational
pull upon our own galaxy happening "immediately," or something).
But, the answer comes from an actual, believing, educated LDS.

UD

[_Tobin]

And I will continue to tell you that the answer to your question, regardless, is absolutely irrelevant to your claims regarding the possibility of FTL travel or communication.

Now, please go look up "Apparent FTL", read carefully, and return and report.

You can bet that others reading this thread already understand "apparent FTL" or will be looking it up soon. Each one of these folks is one more person who knows that you are in over your head here.

According to what you understand about the Big Bang, did the universe expand FASTER than the speed of light and are parts of the universe expanding away from us now FASTER than the speed of light? Yes or no. And DrW, it's a straightforward question and perfectly reasonable.

[_lulu]

And I will continue to tell you that the answer to your question, regardless, is absolutely irrelevant to your claims regarding the possibility of FTL travel or communication.

Now, please go look up "Apparent FTL", read carefully, and return and report.

You can bet that others reading this thread already understand "apparent FTL" or will be looking it up soon. Each one of these folks is one more person who knows that you are in over your head here.

According to what you understand about the Big Bang, did the universe expand FASTER than the speed of light and are parts of the universe expanding away from us now FASTER than the speed of light? Yes or no. And DrW, it's a straightforward question and perfectly reasonable.

And I've answered it. Give it a rest.

[_Nightlion]

As I understand it, Mormon dogma establishes the fact
that no celestial personage can be in two places at one time.

Thus, one "god" (say, Jehovah) can offer up the biblical
Lord's Prayer to another "god" (say, Eloheim), but "God"
himself cannot be on earth and on a planet near Kolob,
all at the same time.

Lately I've stumbled across the explanation that "gods"
can communicate across vast inter-steller distances, at
faster than the speed of light, via "quantum entanglement."

If I understand correctly, this sort of godly communication
is either instantaneous or nearly instantaneous -- such that
Jesus' words on earth reached Eloheim's ears in Heaven, at
about the same instant as Jesus was saying "give us this day..."
etc. Furthermore, had Eloheim decided to do so, He could
have instantly teleported himself to Jesus' side in Palestine,
and handed over the requested daily bread in person.




Can one of our Mormon friends here explain to me how this
quantum entanglement stuff works? Is it the means by which
the Holy Ghost can reside in the hearts of Mormons simultaneously,
all around the earth, and with those (like Enoch) away from earth?

Please teach me... I'm ready to be counseled by priesthood authority.

Uncle Dale

There is a medium that fill the immensity of space and it is composed of light and truth. This is where we came from before the organization of intelligence where we were given an 'independent' sphere of existence. By the gift of knowledge per our respective appointment we were now independently existing beings.

Happens that there are three beings capable of comprehending this medium. The Father, Son and Holy Ghost. The Father sits upon the throne of his power. The Son does the work, and the Holy Ghost is one with both the Father and the Son and at the same time is linked with the medium of light and truth that fills the immensity of space and in in all things and through all things the life and light and power of God that makes alive and quickens according to his will.

So the power of the Holy Ghost is the interface through which it all flows comprehending all things.
There is no time or distance to consider. Everything is always present with God although the actual physical presence of the Father sitting upon the throne of his power is an actual singular location.

If light waves travel 180,000 some odd miles per second, there is another glory higher than that even as the light of the moon is greater than the light of the stars in the firmament. So also there is a glory higher still even as the Sun in its strength is greater than the light of the Moon. I think you can say that if you need to reduce it to terrestrial terms the actual speed of Celestial glory is infinitely fast leaving no barriers to cross in movement and communication. The speed of thought then.

This speed is also the speed at which celestial being can process thoughts and understanding. So if you take three beings who are each of greater intelligence than the sum of all other parts, and they can process information at an infinite speed of thought you have God holding all the worlds rolling upon their wings in the vast expanse of eternity comprehending the smallest particle of each continually.

I have no idea other than that how he does what he does when he does it.