Here Comes The Book of Abraham Part I, II, III

[_Maksutov]

Chandler was paid $2400.00 dollars and not a dime of it came from Joseph Smith or was ever paid back to those who ponied up for it. Those "few bucks" translate to $70,000.00 dollars in today's dollars.

Did Joseph Smith ever actually work for a living? From what I understand about church history everything was pretty much supplied for him and handed to him on a silver platter.

The Egyptian relics were put on formal display in Nauvoo. It was said that the customary payment to tour was 25 cents and that money went to Smith's mother. A lot of people toured Nauvoo and saw the Book of Abraham exhibit. Makes me wonder how much money they made with their con in telling people they had an Egyptian king and royal mummies.

The Mormons were nothing but con artists.

Nothing's changed. From the Lord's Newspaper:

https://www.deseret.com/2019/4/29/20671 ... ted-states

SALT LAKE CITY — Utah has a long-held reputation as the fraud capital of the United States, mostly based on anecdotal evidence.

But a nationwide Ponzi scheme database that Florida attorney Jordan Maglich compiled offers proof that the ignominious label appears deserved.

Utah had the sixth most Ponzi schemes among all states from 2008 to 2018, despite ranking 31st in population, according to ponzitracker.com. Only California, Florida, New York, Texas and Illinois, in that order, had more.

When Salt Lake attorney Mark Pugsley ran a per-capita analysis of the numbers, Utah topped the list for the most Ponzi schemes — and it's not even close.

Pugsley found Utah has 1.35 Ponzi schemes per 100,000 people. Florida is the next highest state at 0.51 per 100,000 people, nearly two-thirds lower.

"This is a question people have been asking for a long time, 'Is Utah really that bad?'" he said. "This for the first time gives us some quantifiable basis to say yes, we are that bad. Not only are we bad, but we're way worse than anyone else by a long shot."

Overall, Utah investors lost over $1.5 billion in those scams over those 10 years. The number does not include other affinity frauds and investment scams which Pugsley estimates account for another $500 million in losses to Utah residents.

Also, removing the massive $17 billion Bernie Madoff scam in New York, Utah has the highest loss per capita of $502 per person, more than double the next highest state. Including Madoff pushes the per-capita loss in New York to $1,093.

Maglich, who represents court-appointed receivers in fraud cases, compiled the database using publicly available news sources over a 10-year period, generally including schemes of $1 million or higher. He started the website in 2011 to warn people about the scams.

Utah, he said, isn't the state people would think of as ranking sixth in the number of Ponzi schemes, right behind some of the most populous states in the country.

"I think that's one of the biggest surprises or takeaways from this accumulation of data," Maglich said. "Unfortunately, the data bears it out."

[_Fence Sitter]

Did Joseph Smith ever actually work for a living?

Depends on how you define "work".

If by work you mean getting people to give you money because they think you know what God wants them to do, then yes.

[_Shulem]

Depends on how you define "work".

If by work you mean getting people to give you money because they think you know what God wants them to do, then yes.

Right. Right. Smith was no doubt a hard worker growing up on a farm but it seems his skills in conning people with hidden buried treasures and monies led ultimately to his bank fraud. I can well image Smith working for Trump or perhaps Trump working for Smith. Peas in a pod.

Pray, pay, and obey:

[_Fence Sitter]

Right. Right. Smith was no doubt a hard worker growing up on a farm but it seems his skills in conning people with hidden buried treasures and monies led ultimately to his bank fraud. I can well image Smith working for Trump or perhaps Trump working for Smith. Peas in a pod.

Pray, pay, and obey:

Not necessarily. There are conflicting accounts on what kind of worker he was.

This from the Stephen Fleming dissertation Kish linked in another thread, may explain it better.

As part of need for ritual purity, the Fourth Book also added that one needed “to separate himself as much as may be done, from all perturbation of mind, and from all manner of foreign and secular business.” If invokers were to avoid secular business, this may have been a reason why Lucy said, “let not my reader suppose, because I shall pursue another topic, that we stopped our labor.” If these rituals called for avoiding “secular business” at the time of ritual, the Smiths may have occasionally done so. Many of the Smiths’ neighbors accused the Smiths, Joseph Jr. in particular, of being lazy, though a number of Smiths’ friends and employers said he was a very hard worker. If Smith was to avoid secular business at times, this could explain this dichotomy.

And even his mom seemed to acknowledge he was not much of a worker but excused it by saying:

‘Never mind about my son Joseph,’ said she one day when my employer had rallied her upon her heir’s useless ways, ‘for the boy will be able some of these fine days to buy the whole of Palmyra and all the folk in it. You don’t know what a brain my boy has under that old hat.’”

[_Shulem]

And then there fell into the hands of Joseph Smith some ancient scriptures from the catacombs of Egypt that were the writings of Abraham while he was in Egypt and that were written by his own hand upon papyrus, from which they were translated and are known as the Book of Abraham.

Gather around kiddies and evaluate Spencer Kimball's testimony of the genuine nature of the Book of Abraham papyrus in 1966 General Conference. This took place just 1 year before the church acquired the newly discovered fragments from the Metropolitan Museum of Art and poor Hugh Nibley (a school teacher) started his web of apologetic tricks and lies!

What did Spencer-baby say as he was moved by the Holy Ghost?:

1. "there fell into the hands of Joseph Smith"; meaning that Joseph Smith had hands - to include palms and fingers. Yes, Joseph Smith had hands. No need to repeat that because I think we get the idea. Joseph Smith had hands!

2. "some ancient scriptures from the catacombs"; meaning that the scriptures were FROM the catacombs which means the ancient scriptures were IN the catacombs and then someone dug the ancient scriptures from OUT of the catacombs. Apologists today want to tell people that the scriptures were never actually in the catacombs but that Smith simply used the papyrus as a catalyst to recreate the Book of Abraham that was had anciently but that the papyrus was not the actual Book of Abraham. But that defies what Kimball said: The scriptures were FROM the catacombs" just like the gold plates were buried in a hole atop a hill in New York state and from it came the Book of Mormon.

Does everyone get this? Is everyone following along? Kimball was testifying of what the early saints were preaching but apostate apologists today have fallen away from the original testimony and are making crap up out of thin air in order to defend there damned testimonies.

3. "writings of Abraham while he was in Egypt"; Kimball is simply repeating what the early saints claimed. The writing of the papyrus were written by Abraham and then buried up in the catacombs where the scriptures would lie dormant until discovered and miraculously translated by Smith. Smith got the writings of Abraham! But today's apologists don't believe that. They don't believe anything the early Mormons said about the papyrus. Not a single thing. The apologists are apostates!

4. "written by his own hand upon papyrus"; We get it. Abraham used his OWN hand to write upon the papyrus and it was later buried in the catacombs with mummies. Then later, Smith's hands would hold the papyrus. It's all so simple. Bingo!

Does anybody not understand this? Oh, I do realize that the apostate apologists have a hard time understanding this and refuse to admit it. They are like Trump. The apologists lie to themselves and lie to everyone else. It's so damn obvious.



Come to Shulem, you ugly damned apostate apologists. I want to rip you a new one! Come to Mormon Discussions and take me on! I dare you! I double dare you!! I'd love to rip Jeff Lindsay a new one! Come on Jeff-baby! Do you think you can take Shulem? This is your big chance to humble me and prove me wrong. You can prove Kerry wrong too.

[_moksha]

Shulem my son, be thee not stagnant in thy efforts...

[_Shulem]

Shulem my son, be thee not stagnant in thy efforts...

I ain't taking no bull, man! The Book of Abraham is a joke, man.

It's a song and a dance.



LOOK OUT FOR THE BULL!

[_Smokey]

Is English your second language? Why would you begin so many sentences with “So,”?

This is kind of sad, clearly your brain has been damaged.

[_Lemmie]

The papyri simply fell into Smith's hands, and it wasn't even a miraculous literal fall from a portal to heaven that opened in the sky over Smith's head as collectively attested by half a dozen of Smith's friends and family who never recanted.

Actually the story of how a up-until-now, one of a kind, totally unknown actual autograph by a mythical man (Abraham)purported to live 4000 years ago, and a similar autograph by his son (Joseph), each buried on different mummies hundreds of years apart, 2000 years ago, arriving in Kirtland, after traveling to Italy, New York and half a dozen other Eastern US cities, to the only man in the world who was capable of translating them at that time, is in some ways, more unbelievable than an angel giving Joseph Smith the gold plates.

I understand he picked them up for a few bucks from a traveling dealer. Quite a change in Smith's style.

Chandler was paid $2400.00 dollars and not a dime of it came from Joseph Smith nor was that money ever paid back to those who ponied up for it. Those "few bucks" translate to $70,000.00 dollars in today's dollars.

Wow. This sounds like Peterson’s million dollar movie. Those who ponied up for it will never see their money again either. Surely someone will benefit, however, given all the “contracts” Peterson has in hand.

[_Shulem]

Is English your second language? Why would you begin so many sentences with “So,”?

This is kind of sad, clearly your brain has been damaged.

So, Smokey-baby, why are you so ugly and have bad breath? Fence Sitter started two sentences with "so" in a single paragraph on page 1 of this thread. So, is he brain damaged too?

So, Screw you!

think the vast majority of rank-in-file don't care if it is or isn't and wouldn't be reading a book like Paul's anyways. Similar to how they don't care about biblical criticism theories. They simply are not interested in examining why they believe certain texts are scripture. They just are scripture, at least to them. So what is his audience? Well it is those who are interested in investigating these sort of things, the group that is reading the JSPP, or Givins, or perhaps are using the new New Testament that Wayment has put out, maybe they even have Bokovoy's book. So, to use a distinction made famous by you, we don't care much here about chapel Mormons, we are talking about the internet ones.