Trib’s Second Article on John Dehlin

[Marcus]

Other than steering tax-exempt donations out of John's dirty hands, I don't care a whit about ex-Mormonism. I don't care about Mormonism anymore at all.

Speaking truth to power is the best summation I have heard here. John abuses people, systems and power. And he gets away with it for two reasons: 1) Because people like his content, especially white male ex-Mormons who are highly trained in defending their spiritual leaders and 2) There's no other platform out there that has as big of a reach within ex-Mormonism that John hasn't already dominated, so any negative news about him is going to inevitably be drowned out.

If we are wrong here, help us understand or make us understand.

Please. don't invoke 'we', unless you plan to specify who is in that group, and that they specifically agree you speak for them. : D

[jpatterson]

Non-profit podcasts similar to Open Stories Foundation in terms of annual revenue:

Birds on a Wire podcast, a look at motherhood through the lens of Christianity. Or is it the other way around? Who knows. Annual revenue $240K - president Karen Stubbs makes $68K a year. That's 28% of gross revenue.

The Michael Schermer Show hosted by Skeptic Society leader and NYT best selling author Michael Schermer. The organization that runs the podcast brings in about $400K per year and Michael takes home exactly zero dollars of that revenue. Because he, you know, has a real job.

Java with Juli - a podcast devoted to sex and intimacy in the context of Christianity (barf). The org behind the podcast pulls in, again, around $400k. Juli who also goes by Juliana Slattery, is the Exec Dir of the non-profit and takes home a whopping $80k for her efforts, or about 20% of gross revenue.

John Dehlin, the best most super podcaster that ever lives and is so much smarter and hard working than these dopes obviously deserves to get paid way more because, why? Mormonism is more interesting? He's on TikTok? He's so handsome?

I could go on and on with examples. You can't refute the fact that John is vastly overpaid.

[Moksha]

Like we got all Rosebudded out.

Just as BYU mechanical engineers sought to create Mormonism out of matter using a palladium rod and tuna casserole as a catalyst, so too has Rosebud antipathy created Dehlin tolerance. If only this had been foreseen, Dr. Peterson would now be a go-to member of Midnight Mormons. Binger and Atlantic Mike would not have been brought to life by the accidental dumping of radioactive cartoonist ink in the Southpark swamps.

[Binger]

Like we got all Rosebudded out.

Just as BYU mechanical engineers sought to create Mormonism out of matter using a palladium rod and tuna casserole as a catalyst, so too has Rosebud antipathy created Dehlin tolerance. If only this had been foreseen, Dr. Peterson would now be a go-to member of Midnight Mormons. Binger and Atlantic Mike would not have been brought to life by the accidental dumping of radioactive cartoonist ink in the Southpark swamps.

I am South Park.

[Binger]

Non-profit podcasts similar to Open Stories Foundation in terms of annual revenue:

Birds on a Wire podcast, a look at motherhood through the lens of Christianity. Or is it the other way around? Who knows. Annual revenue $240K - president Karen Stubbs makes $68K a year. That's 28% of gross revenue.

The Michael Schermer Show hosted by Skeptic Society leader and NYT best selling author Michael Schermer. The organization that runs the podcast brings in about $400K per year and Michael takes home exactly zero dollars of that revenue. Because he, you know, has a real job.

Java with Juli - a podcast devoted to sex and intimacy in the context of Christianity (barf). The org behind the podcast pulls in, again, around $400k. Juli who also goes by Juliana Slattery, is the Exec Dir of the non-profit and takes home a whopping $80k for her efforts, or about 20% of gross revenue.

John Dehlin, the best most super podcaster that ever lives and is so much smarter and hard working than these dopes obviously deserves to get paid way more because, why? Mormonism is more interesting? He's on TikTok? He's so handsome?

I could go on and on with examples. You can't refute the fact that John is vastly overpaid.

Percentage of revenue makes as much sense as a benchmark for taxes as it does for salaries. Comparing salaries as a percentage of revenue is absurd. There is nothing actionable from that data. It omits too many things, including but not limited to, total contribution and ownership.

The collection of comps is not evidence of anything other than an emotional grievance - which is real.

[Atlanticmike]

Like we got all Rosebudded out.

Just as BYU mechanical engineers sought to create Mormonism out of matter using a palladium rod and tuna casserole as a catalyst, so too has Rosebud antipathy created Dehlin tolerance. If only this had been foreseen, Dr. Peterson would now be a go-to member of Midnight Mormons. Binger and Atlantic Mike would not have been brought to life by the accidental dumping of radioactive cartoonist ink in the Southpark swamps.

Fat penguin, are you secretly in love with me? I’m not even posting in this thread and you’re bringing me up!

[Marcus]

Non-profit podcasts similar to Open Stories Foundation in terms of annual revenue:

Birds on a Wire podcast, a look at motherhood through the lens of Christianity. Or is it the other way around? Who knows. Annual revenue $240K - president Karen Stubbs makes $68K a year. That's 28% of gross revenue.

The Michael Schermer Show hosted by Skeptic Society leader and NYT best selling author Michael Schermer. The organization that runs the podcast brings in about $400K per year and Michael takes home exactly zero dollars of that revenue. Because he, you know, has a real job.

Java with Juli - a podcast devoted to sex and intimacy in the context of Christianity (barf). The org behind the podcast pulls in, again, around $400k. Juli who also goes by Juliana Slattery, is the Exec Dir of the non-profit and takes home a whopping $80k for her efforts, or about 20% of gross revenue.

John Dehlin, the best most super podcaster that ever lives and is so much smarter and hard working than these dopes obviously deserves to get paid way more because, why? Mormonism is more interesting? He's on TikTok? He's so handsome?

I could go on and on with examples. You can't refute the fact that John is vastly overpaid.

I appreciate that nonprofit information is collected and compared, it's helpful to make decisions about whether to support their endeavors or not (and it seriously beats the complete lack of transparency from religions in this country!)

But, all that information can do is give an idea of how efficiently the donations are being used by the nonprofits. If enough people find the compensation objectionable, donations will likely go down, which is the best way to express support, or the lack thereof, for a nonprofit.

You've made us aware of this data (several times, over many years), and in my opinion that's all you can do. It's not criminal to be over the average for a category, and in my opinion you'd be better served by giving some idea of the variance, not just that his compensation is above the average. But beyond that, it comes down to people's decisions to donate. This continued, extremely vague position that 'something is wrong!' is not accomplishing anything.

[jpatterson]

Percentage of revenue makes as much sense as a benchmark for taxes as it does for salaries. Comparing salaries as a percentage of revenue is absurd.

Tell it to the IRS, which cares a lot about what percentage of revenues are going to the people in charge. It's called inurement.

Again, you're making yourself look silly here because you don't know what you're talking about.

[jpatterson]

It's not criminal to be over the average for a category, and in my opinion you'd be better served by giving some idea of the variance, not just that his compensation is above the average. But beyond that, it comes down to people's decisions to donate. This continued, extremely vague position that 'something is wrong!' is not accomplishing anything.

It absolutely is actionable (the use of the word criminal here is loaded, as you're much more likely to get fined than thrown in jail for these types of offenses) to be WAY over the average in compensation if you're on the board of directors.

And I've already given you lots of data on salary variances. I've shown that John's salary is double the 90th percentile compared to peer non-profits. I've shown that religious podcasts that pull in the same revenue pay their leaders much much less than John. There's also a long paper trail of John bemoaning the fact that he has to work with a board of directors because it would be so much easier to just pay himself with tax-exempt donations without having to consult anyone else. There is evidence of board manipulation and lack of board oversight. It's all there.

You characterizing everything I've presented as "vague" is simply laughable and only tells me either you haven't actually read my posts or you're being obtuse for purposes of apologetics.

[Binger]

It's not criminal to be over the average for a category, and in my opinion you'd be better served by giving some idea of the variance, not just that his compensation is above the average. But beyond that, it comes down to people's decisions to donate. This continued, extremely vague position that 'something is wrong!' is not accomplishing anything.

It absolutely is actionable (the use of the word criminal here is loaded, as you're much more likely to get fined than thrown in jail for these types of offenses) to be WAY over the average in compensation if you're on the board of directors.

And I've already given you lots of data on salary variances. I've shown that John's salary is double the 90th percentile compared to peer non-profits. I've shown that religious podcasts that pull in the same revenue pay their leaders much much less than John. There's also a long paper trail of John bemoaning the fact that he has to work with a board of directors because it would be so much easier to just pay himself with tax-exempt donations without having to consult anyone else. There is evidence of board manipulation and lack of board oversight. It's all there.

You characterizing everything I've presented as "vague" is simply laughable and only tells me either you haven't actually read my posts or you're being obtuse for purposes of apologetics.

I am going to smoke some crack and drop acid and rave all night on crystal meth. I think that would make me feel better about myself tomorrow than I will feel about agreeing with Marcus, which I do.

Carry on.