“Wither she did go” ??

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Shulem
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Re: “Wither she did go” ??

Post by Shulem »

Ok, I found this and it certainly suggest that the word is feminine:
Bible Hub wrote:Strong's Concordance
oniyyah: a ship
Original Word: אֱנִיָּה
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: oniyyah
Phonetic Spelling: (on-ee-yaw')
Definition: a ship

But still, only a specialist can tell us whether ships (before 600 BC) were actually referred to as "her" or "she" in nautical terms as it is today. That is why we need David Bokovoy.

I'm curious of what degree of nouns are feminine in the Hebrew language vs. the masculine.
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Re: “Wither she did go” ??

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Shulem wrote:
Fri Apr 15, 2022 6:03 pm
Doctor Steuss wrote:
Fri Apr 15, 2022 6:00 pm
*puts on apologist hat*

The word for ship/boat in Hebrew is feminine.

That's interesting. I didn't know that. Are you sure? Do you have an authoritative link in which this is expressed?
Hi Shulem,

Here's the entry for the word from Pealim (a Hebrew learning site).

On the "Biblical" front, I don't know if Brown-Dryer-Briggs is authoritative at all (or just woefully outdated), but: Here is BDB

I don't know that this would necessarily translate over to referring to a ship in the feminine though, like other feminine/masculine noun languages. If nothing else, I guess we can rule out ships being referred to as "she" because of dedication to a particular goddess...
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Moksha
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Re: “Wither she did go” ??

Post by Moksha »

Was Joseph familiar with the sea shanty, What do you do with a Drunken Sailor? That would have been a fun inclusion in the Book! I would love to hear my ward choir sing it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMOyOlmBYCU
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Shulem
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Re: “Wither she did go” ??

Post by Shulem »

Doctor Steuss wrote:
Fri Apr 15, 2022 6:28 pm
I don't know that this would necessarily translate over to referring to a ship in the feminine though, like other feminine/masculine noun languages. If nothing else, I guess we can rule out ships being referred to as "she" because of dedication to a particular goddess...

I think it's safe to say that Jews during the time of Lehi did not ascribe nautical terms of adoration towards goddesses as in other cultures. However, we still have the question of whether the Jews used the feminine expression while seafaring or if the word just has the feminine quality for word sake. I'm sure there are experts who can weigh in on this matter and give us the rundown.

My instincts tell me that seafaring Jews did not employ feminine expression towards their ships as they went about in their seafaring ways. At least the Bible does not give me that impression or suggest it in literary terms. The book Late War has plenty of examples and Smith would have picked up on that.
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Re: “Wither she did go” ??

Post by Shulem »

Moksha wrote:
Fri Apr 15, 2022 6:35 pm
Was Joseph familiar with the sea shanty, What do you do with a Drunken Sailor? That would have been a fun inclusion in the Book! I would love to hear my ward choir sing it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMOyOlmBYCU

Pour the RUM! Drinks on deck for everyone! Clap ur hands and tamp your feet and pour Laman & Lemual another double!

Everyone drink and dance! Make merry and yo ho! We be drunken sailors of the Lord!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
1 Nephi 18:9 wrote:And after we had been driven forth before the wind for the space of many days, behold, my brethren and the sons of Ishmael and also their wives began to make themselves merry, insomuch that they began to dance, and to sing, and to speak with much rudeness, yea, even that they did forget by what power they had been brought thither; yea, they were lifted up unto exceeding rudeness.

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Thus saith Lehi:

Post by Shulem »

She's a mighty fine ship, son.

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Pray that Lehi doesn't drop his brass ball.
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Re: “Wither she did go” ??

Post by Moksha »

Shulem wrote:
Fri Apr 15, 2022 7:53 pm
Pour the RUM! Drinks on deck for everyone! Clap ur hands and tamp your feet and pour Laman & Lemuel another double!
Wouldn't the Lehite Company of Discovery, bound for Delmarva, be more drinkers of Mead (made from Deseret honey) which had been made kosher by Patriarch Lehi? On the other hand, I could see those Lehites working all night on a drink of rum, but daylight comes and they want to go home. They would shout, "Day-me say day me say day me say-day-o. Daylight comes and me want go home."
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Shulem
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Re: “Wither she did go” ??

Post by Shulem »

Moksha wrote:
Fri Apr 15, 2022 8:33 pm
Shulem wrote:
Fri Apr 15, 2022 7:53 pm
Pour the RUM! Drinks on deck for everyone! Clap ur hands and tamp your feet and pour Laman & Lemuel another double!
Wouldn't the Lehite Company of Discovery, bound for Delmarva, be more drinkers of Mead (made from Deseret honey) which had been made kosher by Patriarch Lehi? On the other hand, I could see those Lehites working all night on a drink of rum, but daylight comes and they want to go home. They would shout, "Day-me say day me say day me say-day-o. Daylight comes and me want go home."

I don't think there is any question that Joseph Smith imagined alcohol was at play during the parties they had while aboard Nephi's ship. They just drank a little too much. They got carried away with the honey wine, for sure.

Look again how the AUTHOR Joseph Smith described their actions:

Joseph Smith the storyteller wrote:And after we had been driven forth before the wind for the space of many days, behold, my brethren and the sons of Ishmael and also their wives began to make themselves merry, insomuch that they began to dance, and to sing, and to speak with much rudeness, yea, even that they did forget by what power they had been brought thither; yea, they were lifted up unto exceeding rudeness.

Compare that with other drunks in the Book of Mormon in which a single verse tells us exactly how Joseph Smith envisioned drunken folks which goes right back to Lehi's drunken ship with all that liquor aboard:

Alma 55:14 wrote:And it came to pass they did drink and were merry, and by and by they were all drunken.

and thus they did try all their liquors

;)
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Shulem
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Drunken Nephites disobey the Word of Wisdom

Post by Shulem »

And thus we see how I, Shulem, have questioned the use of the word "she" in Jewish nautical expression and have asked for references to show this was acceptable speech. And now, I've shown that Lehi packed his ship like a pirate full of rum and honey wine to set out to explore the New World. But the crew gave into liquor and drank too much. They had a word of wisdom problem! drunken fools under Lehi's inspired watch. A ship full of alcoholics!
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Re: Thus saith Lehi:

Post by Father Francis »

Shulem wrote:
Fri Apr 15, 2022 8:06 pm
She's a mighty fine ship, son.

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Pray that Lehi doesn't drop his brass ball.
I've seen that painting a million times and it just occurred to me that how ripped that little kid is. he has the forearms of seasoned adult body builder. Why?
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