Nelson reaffirms TK smoothie doctrine that gender is not eternal

[Gadianton]

As it happens, I had never even heard the idea before.

Wow. Impossible to believe. I assume he's justifying this untruth by disputing what the source or sources that he heard the idea from might have meant.

[drumdude]

As it happens, I had never even heard the idea before.

Wow. Impossible to believe. I assume he's justifying this untruth by disputing what the source or sources that he heard the idea from might have meant.

Yes. Apologists say you will have a perfect body, exactly the same, except whatever Rusty meant. And you won’t be able to procreate.

The TK smoothie without the icky imagery. Checkmate, antis.

[I Have Questions]

As it happens, I had never even heard the idea before.

Wow. Impossible to believe. I assume he's justifying this untruth by disputing what the source or sources that he heard the idea from might have meant.

Perhaps he's just a lazy learner. The Church has had this information available to him all along.

[I Have Questions]

In direct contradiction to the proclamation on the family and the justification for anti-LGBT doctrine.

https://youtu.be/Qx6ZwDcjMeY?si=RT96l4IjojlQ-AB8

This woman (who is likely to lose her gender in the Telestial kingdom) lays it out very nicely.

DCP needs a reminder to follow the prophet, and to Think Celestial.

A couple of years ago, at the principal place where my most obsessive critics spin their fantasies about me, it was revealed that I believe that those who fail to gain the highest level of the Celestial Kingdom in the hereafter — the males, anyway — will be mutilated, that they will literally be anatomically emasculated, in the resurrection. And I’m supposed to relish this, and to find it enormously funny. As it happens, I had never even heard the idea before. I’ve never thought any such thing, never imagined any such thing, never written about such a thing — not so much as a line, at least until I felt that I needed to deny holding such an opinion — and I absolutely don’t believe it. Period. It is thoroughly unscriptural.

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeters ... ion-2.html

"...your choices today will determine three things: where you will live throughout all eternity, the kind of body with which you will be resurrected, and those with whom you will live forever... if we unwisely choose to live telestial laws now, we are choosing to be resurrected with a telestial body."

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... n?lang=eng

It's interesting that Peterson chose to resurrect this very old topic during a period where he was largely being ignored by this board.

[Moksha]

Some Church leaders are more whacked out than others. If you examine Joseph Fielding Smith and Russell M. Nelson's statements, you can see a substantive difference between them and Thomas Monson and Gordon Hinkley.

Think of the fiery plane in the Delta death spiral or the name Mormon being from Satan. This TK Smoothy nonsense fits in well with Jesus coming back this year. The coming catastrophe relates to Trump destroying America and crashing the world economy and has nothing to do with any ill will on the part of Jesus.

[dantana]

Back in the old days it was taught that anything short of top heaven was considered hell. It was also taught, but more as lore, that if one could see into the tele. kingdom one would kill themself to get there. I believe that now the Morm lore is that anything above outer dimness is considered heaven. That a person living forever as a TK smoothie will be happy as a clam. -

With nothing to do all day because he doesn't have grandkids to build swing sets for. He doesn't have kids/family/relatives to argue politics and religion with. He doesn't have a wife to share his innermost feeling with.

He doesn't have a job because he doesn't have to work because he doesn't have to provide for himself because he doesn't have to eat because he can't die. He's become bored with jumping into the wood chipper for fun. He has no idea how he's going to spend the rest of ever trying to figure out how to get endorphins to his brain. I can't wait to get there.

[Gadianton]

Perhaps he's just a lazy learner. The Church has had this information available to him all along.

ha yes. But I doubt it. I think he knows full well this is a doctrine that every Mormon is familiar with. Recall that his life was changed by the visionary work of fiction "Added Upon". He didn't internalize that book and then never hear about TK or man forbidden to go to the moon. And there would have been no incentive to. He didn't become an apologist until around 40, when he called one of those street ministries accidentally, thinking he was calling a stake center. Upon learning that there were other missionary groups and even some trying to convert Mormons just like Mormons where trying to convert Christians, he became irate and discovered his purpose. Up until then, every evidence we have is that he had a typical politically right-leaning Chapel Mormon view of reality, which would have included all of this stuff.

[Gadianton]

by the way, as for beliefs about sex and gender, I think Joseph Fielding Smith's basement speculation about humans in the eternities shows his struggle to maintain Mormonism within such strict thinking. He refers to men and women such that he directly contradicts himself unless he's trying for a separation between gender and sex. What he seems to want to say is that there will be people of the genders "man" and "woman" in the lower kingdoms, but they won't biologically be "man" or "woman".

I think it would be quite appropriate for Mormon doctrine if not necessary to make this distinction. Otherwise, there is no awareness of their second or third-place status. If I'm in the T thinking of myself as a man but either without the equipment or with non-functioning equipment suited for the biological tasks of a man, then that is a real punishment. However, if I don't identify as a man, then nothing is lost. I'm not thinking about how much better off those in the C are than I am because they are fundamentally different creatures. Just like I don't greatly envy birds for having wings because I don't psychologically identify as a bird.

[drumdude]

by the way, as for beliefs about sex and gender, I think Joseph Fielding Smith's basement speculation about humans in the eternities shows his struggle to maintain Mormonism within such strict thinking. He refers to men and women such that he directly contradicts himself unless he's trying for a separation between gender and sex. What he seems to want to say is that there will be people of the genders "man" and "woman" in the lower kingdoms, but they won't biologically be "man" or "woman".

I think it would be quite appropriate for Mormon doctrine if not necessary to make this distinction. Otherwise, there is no awareness of their second or third-place status. If I'm in the T thinking of myself as a man but either without the equipment or with non-functioning equipment suited for the biological tasks of a man, then that is a real punishment. However, if I don't identify as a man, then nothing is lost. I'm not thinking about how much better off those in the C are than I am because they are fundamentally different creatures. Just like I don't greatly envy birds for having wings because I don't psychologically identify as a bird.

This excellent observation still applies to DCP’s latest post on the matter. He can’t have it both ways.

[I Have Questions]

by the way, as for beliefs about sex and gender, I think Joseph Fielding Smith's basement speculation about humans in the eternities shows his struggle to maintain Mormonism within such strict thinking. He refers to men and women such that he directly contradicts himself unless he's trying for a separation between gender and sex. What he seems to want to say is that there will be people of the genders "man" and "woman" in the lower kingdoms, but they won't biologically be "man" or "woman".

I think it would be quite appropriate for Mormon doctrine if not necessary to make this distinction. Otherwise, there is no awareness of their second or third-place status. If I'm in the T thinking of myself as a man but either without the equipment or with non-functioning equipment suited for the biological tasks of a man, then that is a real punishment. However, if I don't identify as a man, then nothing is lost. I'm not thinking about how much better off those in the C are than I am because they are fundamentally different creatures. Just like I don't greatly envy birds for having wings because I don't psychologically identify as a bird.

This excellent observation still applies to DCP’s latest post on the matter. He can’t have it both ways.

The other nettle for Peterson to grasp is this: If the CK is where men and women will continue to have sex and produce children, then Nelson will be having sex with both Danzel and Wendy. Nelson will be living polygamously. As will Oaks. As will Young. As will Smith. Although Smith’s eternal sex ring will be complicated by the fact that some of his wives will have other husbands. So for the Nelsons, as an example, how will the logistics work? Will they reside in the same place as a thruple? Will there be one bedroom or more than one, and why? Will Nelson be getting them both pregnant, regularly, for eternity? (Imagine that ladies, an eternity of bearing and rearing children - that's your 'heaven'). If Nelson stops getting both his eternal wives pregnant on a regular basis, will he be relegated to a lower kingdom commensurate with his lack of activity? If Danzel or Wendy transgresses and has to be relegated to a lower kingdom, who gets the kids? If Nelson gets his own dominion (as per the doctrine) will he need to impregnate a 'Mary" within that dominion, and if so, does that not qualify as cheating on Danzel and Wendy?

The best way to see the stupidity of Mormon doctrine is to think about it really hard, in terms of what the practicalities of it are...