Problematic John Dehlin, a short list

[The Stig]

With Money just acknowledging that she didn't get paid for the work, he pushed her out.

MONEY DID NOT PRODUCE REVENUE

Why should she get paid for providing exactly $0 to the success of the organization? Do you live in the real world? You know, where people are compensated based on what value they provide. Money produced no money. Therefore, no compensation.

But I'm glad to see that you and Kate Kelly's laptop are operating from the same playbook.

It's this kind of passionate and blinded following as evidenced by the posts of Tavares Standfield that most concerns me about Dehlin. He has developed a cult of personality kind of following amongst many in the exmo community. The pattern is all too similar to that of Joseph Smith and I see way too many who leave the church who end up as followers of some other malignant pied piper.

[Esme]

2) I am partial to this point because I am not a huge fan of the whole 'life coaching' craze. I honestly wasn't even aware that John Dehlin did it until recently. He must be terrible at advertising it. Yeah, I agree that him touting his PhD and degrees is murky. To give him the benefit of the doubt in the link you shared to his coaching page he does share a link to a pdf that explains the difference between coaching and psychotherapy. But yes, murky indeed.

Note: Coaching is NOT the same thing as psychotherapy. Before reaching out, please read this document to understand the main differences between psychotherapy and coaching.

You need to compare this to what his website USED to say. Someone grabbed a screenshot before he changed it where it says

Information about his psychotherapy and coaching private practice can be found here. [link]

So it looks like he was advertising psychotherapy AND coaching.

[pistolero]

I guess I'm with Kish on the Kristi Money thing. John Dehlin seems like a hard negotiator and its a big world out there for the Kristi Moneys and whomever to podcast whatever they want and get paid doing their own thing. I also don't see a problem with his policing his social media and forcing detractors off. He is his brand and I guess he needs to push it and cannot tolerate dissent, like probably all businesses.

How many of you ever listened to KM's podcast? Not wanting to kick her when she's down, but personally her podcasts did nothing for me-I will leave it in those terms. And before the feminist crew get on my back, Gina Colvin walks on water and is up there with RFM as my fave podcaster evs.

[consiglieri]

2) I am partial to this point because I am not a huge fan of the whole 'life coaching' craze. I honestly wasn't even aware that John Dehlin did it until recently. He must be terrible at advertising it. Yeah, I agree that him touting his PhD and degrees is murky. To give him the benefit of the doubt in the link you shared to his coaching page he does share a link to a pdf that explains the difference between coaching and psychotherapy. But yes, murky indeed.

You need to compare this to what his website USED to say. Someone grabbed a screenshot before he changed it where it says

Information about his psychotherapy and coaching private practice can be found here. [link]

So it looks like he was advertising psychotherapy AND coaching.

So it’s a bad thing he changed it?

[Kishkumen]

I will be the first to say that I don't agree with John Dehlin's business model, but it is the one he uses, and it is not beyond the pale. There are people who didn't benefit from it and came to feel they should have benefited more than they did. OK. So. Don't sign on to that kind of thing again. OK? Next.

And I really can't muster any sympathy for KK in her gripes with Dehlin. It has all the marks of being someone who has managed her own brand poorly using her grudge against Dehlin to create a kind of relevance-building crusade against him. Her allies have been, guess who, Kristey Money and Rosebud.

Oh, well, that's underwhelming to say the least. And now because there are these "concerns" about what is "problematic" about Dehlin built around the gripes and ambitions of people who barely nudge the sympathy meter when they aren't repulsing me, I just can't muster a lot of outrage against Dehlin.

I don't get into life coaching.

I don't go on cruises.

I am not a podcaster.

And I am not gonna get my rip cord wrapped around the axle over the ways that John Dehlin has peeved people off by mishandling his social media, or treating his podcasting almost like an MLM. If you don't like it, don't sign up.

I remember when a former friend called me up to push AMWAY on me. That friendship didn't go very far after that. But I didn't waste my time contacting all of our mutual acquaintances to run the guy down for trying to monetize our friendship. I found it distasteful, so he left my Rolodex.

Problem solved.

[Tavares Standfield]

It's this kind of passionate and blinded following as evidenced by the posts of Tavares Standfield that most concerns me about Dehlin. He has developed a cult of personality kind of following amongst many in the exmo community. The pattern is all too similar to that of Joseph Smith and I see way too many who leave the church who end up as followers of some other malignant pied piper.

John has literally saved hundreds of lives. And he has brought tens of thousands out of the LDS Church.

If any man deserves our respect and admiration, it is John Dehlin.

[consiglieri]

I guess I'm with Kish on the Kristi Money thing. John Dehlin seems like a hard negotiator and its a big world out there for the Kristi Moneys and whomever to podcast whatever they want and get paid doing their own thing. I also don't see a problem with his policing his social media and forcing detractors off. He is his brand and I guess he needs to push it and cannot tolerate dissent, like probably all businesses.

How many of you ever listened to KM's podcast? Not wanting to kick her when she's down, but personally her podcasts did nothing for me-I will leave it in those terms. And before the feminist crew get on my back, Gina Colvin walks on water and is up there with RFM as my fave podcaster evs.

Thanks for the kind words!

Let me chime in and say Gina is perhaps the most talented interviewer in the Bloggernacle!

Her careful and articulate questions probe beneath the surface and often expose rich deposits of gold.

I aspire to be as good as she!

[Tavares Standfield]

I remember when a former friend called me up to push AMWAY on me. That friendship didn't go very far after that. But I didn't waste my time contacting all of our mutual acquaintances to run the guy down for trying to monetize our friendship. I found it distasteful, so he left my Rolodex.

Problem solved.

As usual, the dear Reverend has nailed it.

[Kishkumen]

A primary thing with Money, Kelly, and Rosebud and others that deserves censure is how he responds to dissent. With Rosebud, he pushed her out. With Money just acknowledging that she didn't get paid for the work, he pushed her out. With Kelly expressing some support for Money, he cut her off and blocked her.

Do they have a constitutional right not to be edited on Dehlin's social media by Dehlin, or, to use a handy analogy, if they come into his store and behave really poorly, does he have a right to refuse them service?

[cinepro]

Case in point, he loves to talk about how much money he walked away from at Microsoft as if he was a martyr, when he knows damn well he loves all the fame and attention he got out of it and wouldn't have gotten any of that at Microsoft.

The problem with the Microsoft claim is that (if the Wikipedia timeline is correct), Dehlin left Microsoft in 2004 and moved to Utah to work for USU's OpenCourseware. Then it appears MIT got involved so Dehlin worked for them. Then he left (not sure exactly when) to work on podcasting and Open Stories Foundation full time.

I don't know how much he was making at OpenCourseware, but that would be the relevant opportunity cost. Open Stories and podcasting had nothing to do with him leaving Microsoft. So if he (or anyone else) brings up what he was making or could have made at Microsoft as being relevant to Open Stories Foundation, they're pushing a false narrative.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Dehlin#Early_career