Flip Side of the Coin

[_Drifting]

I volunteered my time to help promote Proposition 8

I've made my position on gay marriage pretty clear in previous posts. In the United States of America, the land of liberty, gay and lesbian couples should be allowed to marry. I admit that.

Can anyone spot the contradiction...?

[Guest]

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[_KevinSim]

This discussion has always been about the question of the church being true or the Book of Mormon being true. Fairly simple questions. I agree with past church presidents who state it is all true or all false.

I also agree with those "past church presidents"; the LDS Church is either "all true or all false"; the Book of Mormon is either a record of ancient Americans or it is not. I have never said otherwise. All I have said is that if someone thinks s/he has found an inconsistency the first time that someone hears some faith group leader say two apparently contradictory things, and that therefore that someone can conclude that God does not inspire that leader, that someone simply doesn't understand how natural languages work relative to formal mathematical languages.

[_KevinSim]

Whether a God is good is not relevant here as to evidence against their existence. Many believe in Satan's existence without thinking Satan has to be good. You are evaluating other God based on whether you like them, which is fine, but it doesn't really answer the question of their possible existence, only your choices of whether you want to believe and follow what you think they are, and are saying to you.

I think what happened here was that I wasn't aware that the central object of our discussion was whether the Biblical Christian version of God was more likely to exist than the LDS version of God. To be perfectly honest, I have no idea which concept is more likely to exist based on the empirical record; I simply don't have any expertise in that area. I do know that if the Biblical Christian God does exist, I want absolutely nothing to do with him, and I don't see how anyone with a well developed conscience could want anything to do with him.

[_KevinSim]

Shades of grey doesn't somehow make it consistent.

Obviously. And your lack of seeing the shades of grey in what I've said doesn't make it inconsistent either.

[_KevinSim]

I volunteered my time to help promote Proposition 8

I've made my position on gay marriage pretty clear in previous posts. In the United States of America, the land of liberty, gay and lesbian couples should be allowed to marry. I admit that.

Can anyone spot the contradiction...?

Thank you, Drifting, thank you, thank you, thank you.

You've made precisely the point I was trying to make in another part of this very thread. If you listen to the opening statements a person has made, up until the point that you find two things that you believe amount to a contradiction, and then don't listen to any of the rest of what that someone says, then it's possible to leap to the naïve conclusion that that person is inconsistent and shouldn't be taken seriously.

Of course, promoting Proposition 8 and then stating gay couples should be allowed to marry sounds inconsistent, but in fact I went on to explain precisely why those viewpoints aren't inconsistent. Yes, gay couples should be allowed to marry, but not before polygamous triples should be allowed to marry. That is why I supported Proposition 8.

[_just me]

Thank you, Drifting, thank you, thank you, thank you.

You've made precisely the point I was trying to make in another part of this very thread. If you listen to the opening statements a person has made, up until the point that you find two things that you believe amount to a contradiction, and then don't listen to any of the rest of what that someone says, then it's possible to leap to the naïve conclusion that that person is inconsistent and shouldn't be taken seriously.

Of course, promoting Proposition 8 and then stating gay couples should be allowed to marry sounds inconsistent, but in fact I went on to explain precisely why those viewpoints aren't inconsistent. Yes, gay couples should be allowed to marry, but not before polygamous triples should be allowed to marry. That is why I supported Proposition 8.

So, straights should be allowed multiple spouses BEFORE gays are allowed one spouse.

[_Drifting]

I volunteered my time to help promote Proposition 8

I've made my position on gay marriage pretty clear in previous posts. In the United States of America, the land of liberty, gay and lesbian couples should be allowed to marry. I admit that.

Thank you, Drifting, thank you, thank you, thank you.

You've made precisely the point I was trying to make in another part of this very thread. If you listen to the opening statements a person has made, up until the point that you find two things that you believe amount to a contradiction, and then don't listen to any of the rest of what that someone says, then it's possible to leap to the naïve conclusion that that person is inconsistent and shouldn't be taken seriously.

Of course, promoting Proposition 8 and then stating gay couples should be allowed to marry sounds inconsistent, but in fact I went on to explain precisely why those viewpoints aren't inconsistent. Yes, gay couples should be allowed to marry, but not before polygamous triples should be allowed to marry. That is why I supported Proposition 8.

I was going to ridicule your statement, but I'm not sure you need my help...

[_Drifting]

This discussion has always been about the question of the church being true or the Book of Mormon being true. Fairly simple questions. I agree with past church presidents who state it is all true or all false.

I also agree with those "past church presidents"; the LDS Church is either "all true or all false"; the Book of Mormon is either a record of ancient Americans or it is not. I have never said otherwise.

So do you believe that the translation of the Facsimilies canonised in the Pearl of Great Price are true?

[_Themis]

I also agree with those "past church presidents"; the LDS Church is either "all true or all false"; the Book of Mormon is either a record of ancient Americans or it is not. I have never said otherwise. All I have said is that if someone thinks s/he has found an inconsistency the first time that someone hears some faith group leader say two apparently contradictory things, and that therefore that someone can conclude that God does not inspire that leader, that someone simply doesn't understand how natural languages work relative to formal mathematical languages.

There is plenty of inconsistency in the Book of Mormon and the church, but the big problem is inconsistency of Moroni's promise or the spiritual experience in which people claim to get objective truths from. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/inconsistency