Flip Side of the Coin

[_Themis]

I think what happened here was that I wasn't aware that the central object of our discussion was whether the Biblical Christian version of God was more likely to exist than the LDS version of God.

I am not aware that it was the central object, but you were the one who was asking about it after I made the comment. I wouldn't say more likely to exist, but that the LDS God has more evidence against it.

To be perfectly honest, I have no idea which concept is more likely to exist based on the empirical record; I simply don't have any expertise in that area.

Well only you can change that by looking at the evidences against the church like the Book of Abraham or Book of Mormon.

I do know that if the Biblical Christian God does exist, I want absolutely nothing to do with him, and I don't see how anyone with a well developed conscience could want anything to do with him.

I think many Christians might not agree with your understanding of what their God is like.

[_PrickKicker]

If Joseph Smith and the church sold itself as a lifestyle choice, if it was all about the healthy living and the charity and the community, it would be honorable, noble and righteous.
But it has not been honest and open with its history and origin and leaders.

As with magicians and illusionists and dare I say CON MEN, there is always a sales man, a shill and the poor and desperate innocent folk that listen to their lies.

honest men do not claim the magic is real but just a trick, and return the coin, note, watch or life savings that they have duped you of.

If God speaks to the Prophet, why hasn't he got the balls to stand up and say it... Why don't they say bring on the tar and feathers baby cause I am ready to die for my beliefs.

Since Wilford Woodruff all prophets have been cowards or not prophets at all.

[_KevinSim]

You keep asserting this, but thus far you've offered no evidence for it. I'm certainly willing to believe that your conscience drives you to work towards that very specific goal, but what makes you think it's a human universal?

Cylon, how far into the future does your conscience require you to attempt to benefit the human race? Are you just responsible (to some degree) for the welfare of your children, for as long as they will live? Or does your conscience prompt you to do good things for your grandchildren too? Is that enough? Can you just take care (to the degree you can) of your grandchildren, and then forget about future generations? Where do you make the cutoff, and why do you make the cutoff there?

Uh, are you really not aware of the issues with the Book of Abraham papyri? We have at least some of the papyri that Joseph said he used to translate the Book of Abraham, and we now know how to translate Egyptian. The papyri don't say anything even slightly related to what the Book of Abraham says, therefore, Joseph's translation of the papyri is false.

Cylon, have you even thought about what you just wrote? "We have at least some of the papyri that Joseph said he used to translate the Book of Abraham ... therefore, Joseph's translation of the papyri is false." If you had all "of the papyri that Joseph said he used to translate," then you might indeed conclude that the translation is false; how do you arrive at that conclusion when all you have is some?

No, because of course you can't prove a negative. What it does mean is that there's no good reason to believe God did inspire the Book of Mormon.

Are you saying that without historical confirmation of a book of scripture we have nothing? How do you come to that conclusion?

[_KevinSim]

So, straights should be allowed multiple spouses BEFORE gays are allowed one spouse.

Or at the same time. If someone were to try to make it a law that two or three adults of any gender combination could get married, I would support that law.

[_KevinSim]

I was going to ridicule your statement, but I'm not sure you need my help...

Drifting, go ahead and ridicule it. If you don't, how will I ever find out the errors in my reasoning?

[_KevinSim]

So do you believe that the translation of the Facsimilies canonised in the Pearl of Great Price are true?

Quite honestly I have no idea whether or not the translation of the facsimilies are true.

[Guest]

I am not aware that it was the central object, but you were the one who was asking about it after I made the comment. I wouldn't say more likely to exist, but that the LDS God has more evidence against it.

There you go again, Themis. If the LDS God having "more evidence against it" doesn't mean the LDS God being less "likely to exist," then what does "more evidence against it" mean? Here you appear to be saying the two concepts are not identical, which was my original understanding as well. That being the case, what does "more evidence against it" mean?

I think many Christians might not agree with your understanding of what their God is like.

We're talking about the Biblical Christian idea that God both has the power to cause souls to cease to exist, and also chooses not to use that power to cause the souls of the unsaved to cease to exist, which is pretty standard for most Christian groups (with the notable exceptions of Seventh-day Adventists and Christian Universalists). This God could put these souls out of their misery at any point in the future, but this God instead chooses, by His inaction, to let them continue suffering endlessly. Themis, if one cannot know that a good God with this power would put these souls out of their misery after some finite amount of suffering, what can one know that a good God would do?

[_KevinSim]

If Joseph Smith and the church sold itself as a lifestyle choice, if it was all about the healthy living and the charity and the community, it would be honorable, noble and righteous.

Joseph Smith didn't sell "itself as a lifestyle choice"; he sold it as the organization God wanted on the planet to send God's message to the world.

[_sock puppet]

So do you believe that the translation of the Facsimilies canonised in the Pearl of Great Price are true?

Quite honestly I have no idea whether or not the translation of the facsimilies are true.

You believe in a religion that has identified a set of information, its canon, as divine and true, but you have no idea whether or not a part of that canon is (the facsimiles are) true?

[_sock puppet]

So do you believe that the translation of the Facsimilies canonised in the Pearl of Great Price are true?

Quite honestly I have no idea whether or not the translation of the facsimilies are true.

Does Mormon god stand behind the facsimiles or not give a rat's ass either?