Possible Modern Source for the Book of Mormon

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_palerobber
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Re: Possible Modern Source for the Book of Mormon

Post by _palerobber »

"Negative Questions in the Book of Mormon", by Ben Spackman, Insights, Vol. 26, Issue 4.
FARMS Update No. 179
[...]
In Hebrew, questions that require a yes or no answer are prefixed by hă (an interrogative particle), and negative questions are prefixed by hălôʾ (the particle plus the word for no). In contrast to a "simple question, when the questioner is wholly uncertain as to the answer to be expected," these negative questions, Hebrew scholars have pointed out, sometimes have an "exclamatory nuance" or "a special force of asseveration" (i.e., they are being used for rhetorical effect, conveying positive or even emphatic force).
[...]
One good example of a potentially Hebrew-based negative question in the Book of Mormon comes from Helaman 9, where Nephi is accused of murdering the chief judge, Seezoram. In prophetically sending the authorities to the true assassin, Seantum, Nephi instructs them to ask Seantum, "From whence cometh this blood [on your cloak]? Do we not know that it is the blood of your brother?" (Helaman 9:32). In other words, "We do indeed know that it is the blood of your brother." [...] A second example is a well-known passage from Moroni 10:4. [...] Additional examples of negative questions may include 1 Nephi 15:12; 2 Nephi 31:7; Jacob 5:48; Mosiah 4:19; 7:23; 20:18; 27:15; and Alma 5:11; 27:18; 39:18; 39:19; 47:34.


Chapter III, p. 26-27
23
For, lo ! are not the fighting men of Britain in multitude as the sand on the sea shore ? and shall we prevail against them ?
24
Are not the mighty ships of the king spread over the whole face of the waters? is not Britain the "bulwark of our religion?"


Chapter V, p. 32
4
Now the armies of the king of Britain, are they not numbered and written in the book of Hume, the scribe ? is not their name a terror to all nations ?


Chapter VI, p. 38
12
But if a man's ass falleth into a ditch, shall the master suffer thereby ? if injury can be prevented, shall we not rather with our might endeavor to help him ?


Chapter XVI, p. 88
32
Lo ! are we not the faithful servants of the king, our master ? have we not given unto him the one half of our whole substance ? and shall these Yankees take from us the remainder?
_gramps
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Re: Possible Modern Source for the Book of Mormon

Post by _gramps »

palerobber wrote:"Negative Questions in the Book of Mormon", by Ben Spackman, Insights, Vol. 26, Issue 4.
FARMS Update No. 179
[...]
In Hebrew, questions that require a yes or no answer are prefixed by hă (an interrogative particle), and negative questions are prefixed by hălôʾ (the particle plus the word for no). In contrast to a "simple question, when the questioner is wholly uncertain as to the answer to be expected," these negative questions, Hebrew scholars have pointed out, sometimes have an "exclamatory nuance" or "a special force of asseveration" (i.e., they are being used for rhetorical effect, conveying positive or even emphatic force).
[...]
One good example of a potentially Hebrew-based negative question in the Book of Mormon comes from Helaman 9, where Nephi is accused of murdering the chief judge, Seezoram. In prophetically sending the authorities to the true assassin, Seantum, Nephi instructs them to ask Seantum, "From whence cometh this blood [on your cloak]? Do we not know that it is the blood of your brother?" (Helaman 9:32). In other words, "We do indeed know that it is the blood of your brother." [...] A second example is a well-known passage from Moroni 10:4. [...] Additional examples of negative questions may include 1 Nephi 15:12; 2 Nephi 31:7; Jacob 5:48; Mosiah 4:19; 7:23; 20:18; 27:15; and Alma 5:11; 27:18; 39:18; 39:19; 47:34.


Chapter III, p. 26-27
23
For, lo ! are not the fighting men of Britain in multitude as the sand on the sea shore ? and shall we prevail against them ?
24
Are not the mighty ships of the king spread over the whole face of the waters? is not Britain the "bulwark of our religion?"


Chapter V, p. 32
4
Now the armies of the king of Britain, are they not numbered and written in the book of Hume, the scribe ? is not their name a terror to all nations ?


Chapter VI, p. 38
12
But if a man's ass falleth into a ditch, shall the master suffer thereby ? if injury can be prevented, shall we not rather with our might endeavor to help him ?


Chapter XVI, p. 88
32
Lo ! are we not the faithful servants of the king, our master ? have we not given unto him the one half of our whole substance ? and shall these Yankees take from us the remainder?


LOL. Nice work.
I detest my loose style and my libertine sentiments. I thank God, who has removed from my eyes the veil...
Adrian Beverland
_Darth J
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Re: Possible Modern Source for the Book of Mormon

Post by _Darth J »

Avatar4321 wrote: I've once asked, how many "coincidences" does the Book of Mormon have to have before it's looked at seriously?

http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/444 ... in-hebrew/
_Everybody Wang Chung
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Re: Possible Modern Source for the Book of Mormon

Post by _Everybody Wang Chung »

I really hope the faculty at Cassius is busy compiling, reviewing and getting ready to publish something on this.

I have personal knowledge DCP has been discussing this with several Mopologists today, and they are taking this very seriously. I anxiously await their response.
"I'm on paid sabbatical from BYU in exchange for my promise to use this time to finish two books."

Daniel C. Peterson, 2014
_cognitiveharmony
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Re: Possible Modern Source for the Book of Mormon

Post by _cognitiveharmony »

Thought this was ironic:

Chapter XLV

25. Now Cockburn was loath that his wicked deeds should be handed down to future generations; so he went and destroyed, with his own hands, the chief printing office of the city, and scattered the type abroad;
26. Because, as he alledged, the printer had, in times past, uttered many hard things against him.
27. Thus did he, even Cockburn, like an ignorant savage, stamp his own name with infamy, and make it become a reproach amongst all mankind.

:smile:
Last edited by Guest on Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
_SteelHead
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Re: Possible Modern Source for the Book of Mormon

Post by _SteelHead »

I think the mopologist response will be somewhat along the 'whenever God provides a great work, Satan produces a counterfeit to confuse and dissuade' trope.
It is better to be a warrior in a garden, than a gardener at war.

Some of us, on the other hand, actually prefer a religion that includes some type of correlation with reality.
~Bill Hamblin
_Juggler Vain
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Re: Possible Modern Source for the Book of Mormon

Post by _Juggler Vain »

This is a fun exercise. How about this?

LATE WAR, VI:14, Pg. 24:
14 And it came to pass, that a great multitude flocked to the banners of the great Sanhedrim.


Book of Mormon, Alma 62:5:
5 And it came to pass that thousands did flock unto his standard, and did take up their swords in the defence of their freedom, that they might not come into bondage.


-JV

ETA, also

Alma 61:6:
6 And behold, I have sent a proclamation throughout this part of the land; and behold, they are flocking to us daily, to their arms, in the defence of their country and their freedom, and to avenge our wrongs.


The context for the passages in both books is people choosing sides in a civil war between one side that is loyal to a king and the other side that is in favor of "freedom" from kings.
Last edited by Guest on Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
_SteelHead
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Re: Possible Modern Source for the Book of Mormon

Post by _SteelHead »

cognitiveharmony wrote:Thought this was ironic:

Chapter XLV

25. Now Cockburn was loath that his wicked deeds should be handed down to future generations; so he went and destroyed, with his own hands, the chief printing office of the city, and scattered the type abroad;
26. Because, as he alledged, the printer had, in times past, uttered many hard things against him.
27. Thus did he, even Cockburn, like an ignorant savage, stamp his own name with infamy, and make it become a reproach amongst all mankind.

:smile:


Now that my friends, is prophetic.
It is better to be a warrior in a garden, than a gardener at war.

Some of us, on the other hand, actually prefer a religion that includes some type of correlation with reality.
~Bill Hamblin
_Darth J
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Re: Possible Modern Source for the Book of Mormon

Post by _Darth J »

lightplanet.com wrote: Another common Hebraism found in the Book of Mormon is "he said in his heart," meaning "he thought."

http://www.lightplanet.com/response/idioms.htm


John Tvedtness wrote: The Hebrews w may oftentimes be translated “now” or “for” instead of “and.” In many instances in the Book of Mormon (such as Enos 13), it is translated “and now.” An excellent example of its frequent use is found in Alma 43:16–20:

http://byustudies.BYU.edu/PDFLibrary/11 ... a90d51.pdf


You're basically playing tee ball with each of these, so who wants to start?
_Gadianton
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Re: Possible Modern Source for the Book of Mormon

Post by _Gadianton »

Ch. XIV, pp. 51

39 For the savages put forth the burning brand to the houses, from which they could not flee, and burnt them to death therein,

40 And the flames and the smoke arose; and their cries and their groans reached the high chancery of heaven,

41 Where they will stand recorded, until the coming of that day for which all other days were made.

Alma 14

10 And when Amulek saw the pains of the women and children who were consuming in the fire, he also was pained; and he said unto Alma: How can we witness this awful scene? Therefore let us stretch forth our hands, and exercise the power of God which is in us, and save them from the flames.

11 But Alma said unto him: The Spirit constraineth me that I must not stretch forth mine hand; for behold the Lord receiveth them up unto himself, in glory; and he doth suffer that they may do this thing, or that the people may do this thing unto them, according to the hardness of their hearts, that the judgments which he shall exercise upon them in his wrath may be just; and the blood of the innocent shall stand as a witness against them, yea, and cry mightily against them at the last day.


Awesome
Last edited by Guest on Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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