Same-sex Marriage.

[_wenglund]

You support marginalizing homosexuals...

This is a cheap buzz phrase that requires some unpacking. Examples, please.

...and you cite approvingly a guy who thinks gay relationships should be "stigmatized."

In order for you to be reasonable, you need to demonstrate that: 1) on balance, stigmatizing homosexual behaviors is more hurtful as compared with de-stigmatization, 2) simply stating that gay relationship should be "stigmatized," itself, hurts people, and 3) my simply quoting a guy, somehow hurts people. Good luck with that.

Once you have substantiated your "hurt" accusation, then I will be pleased to see your "evil" substantiation.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_wenglund]

At least you admit it: your opposition to same-sex marriage is about your religious beliefs. Does it feel good to finally be honest about this?

I admitted no such thing in what I said. I was speaking solely to the tangential question of opposite-sex marriage.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_Bob Loblaw]

This is a cheap buzz phrase that requires some unpacking. Examples, please.

Adults who don't have the same legal rights and protections as other adults and who face strong social disapproval are by definition marginalized.

marginalize: "to relegate to an unimportant or powerless position within a society or group."

Denial of legal rights and protections renders people relatively powerless. And please don't insult anyone's intelligence by pretending you think gay couples should occupy an important position in society.

In order for you to be reasonable, you need to demonstrate that: 1) on balance, stigmatizing homosexual behaviors is more hurtful as compared with de-stigmatization, 2) simply stating that gay relationship should be "stigmatized," itself, hurts people, and 3) my simply quoting a guy, somehow hurts people. Good luck with that.

Once you have substantiated your "hurt" accusation, then I will be pleased to see your "evil" substantiation.

Your own studies show that social and familial stigmatization leads to all kinds of bad outcomes, including suicide. So, just for the hell of it, let's start stigmatizing Mormons for their own good, just to see how well that works. After all, there have only been limited studies of small cohorts from Missouri and Illinois. FRIN.

[_wenglund]

Wait. We're talking about Gay marriage again? I didn't know Mr. Wade switched topics. If that's the case, Mr. Wade, would mind addressing my post to which you responded that you weren't talking about Gay marriage?

- Doc

As with many discussions here, this thread has gone in a number of directions, some tangential and others not. It can be hard for some people to grasp the direction in which a given comment is following. That is why the quote function is usesful.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_Bob Loblaw]

I admitted no such thing in what I said. I was speaking solely to the tangential question of opposite-sex marriage.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

I may have been wrong in my assessment: maybe you are just too stupid to realize how transparent you are.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Mr. Wade,

Since my comment was literally on the prior page (then 15), and then quoted by you at the top of page 16, I would expect you to have the contextual awareness to know what I'm talking about. Regardless, here it is:

Thinks me that in terms of public health concerns like the alarming occurrence of STD's, were public policy makers to consider, as one of many solutions, promoting marriage (i.e. the right to legally marry) as a means of encouraging long-term and stable relationships and fidelity within those relationships, then in terms of feasibility/viability, it would make sense for the policy-makers to consider the propensity of the target population to get married, and stay married, and remain faithful in the marriage.

Thinks me that regarding the public concern for the welfare of minority-aged children, were policy makers to, as one of many solutions, consider marriage as a means of encouraging long-term and stable relationships and fidelity within those relationships, then in terms of feasibility/viability, it would make sense for the policy-makers to consider the propensity of the target population to get married, and stay married, and remain faithful in the marriage.

Thinks me that in terms of population concerns, where there may be looming the disconcerting threat of decline in population or where there is the perceived need for population growth, were policy makers to, in conjunction with the previously mentioned concerns, consider as one of many solutions, utilizing marriage as a means of encouraging legitimate procreation, then in terms of feasibility/viability, it would make sense for the policy-makers to consider the propensity of the target population to procreate, as well as their propensity to decide to get married, and stay married, and remain faithful in the marriage.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Would you mind providing references for your assertions? I would love to see empirical data backing up your claims since, from my perspective, Heteros seem to be as guilty, if not more guilty within context of your post.

- Doc

[Gadianton]

Adults who don't have the same legal rights and protections as other adults and who face strong social disapproval are by definition marginalized.

Denial of legal rights and protections renders people relatively powerless. And please don't insult anyone's intelligence by pretending you think gay couples should occupy an important position in society.

Nowhere in this thread or in my Leftist LUNC pages upon which this thread is based, do I deny anyone any legal rights nor do I call for the denial of their rights. You are discriminatingly leveling false accusations. Please stop.

Your own studies show that social and familial stigmatization leads to all kinds of bad outcomes, including suicide. So, just for the hell of it, let's start stigmatizing Mormons for their own good, just to see how well that works. After all, there have only been limited studies of small cohorts from Missouri and Illinois. FRIN.

If you can show even a correlation between the decrease in stigmatizing of Mormon's and the rise, among Mormons as with homosexuals, of serious public health issues like STD's, promiscuity, domestic violence, and suicides, then you may have a valid comparison. Good luck with that.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_wenglund]

Mr. Wade,

Since my comment was literally on the prior page (then 15), and then quoted by you at the top of page 16, I would expect you to have the contextual awareness to know what I'm talking about.

I don't know how you have your MD account configured in terms of viewing posts per page, but as I have it configured, there were four separate posts from me on page 15. Since I don't read minds, I have no way of telling which post you had in mind. It is unreasonable to expect me to read your mind.

And, since what you now quote from me doesn't distinguish between hetero and homo, and thus may no claims specific to either, hopefully you can grasp the puzzling nature of your request and the need for clarification.

Would you mind providing references for your assertions? I would love to see empirical data backing up your claims since, from my perspective, Heteros seem to be as guilty, if not more guilty within context of your post.

- Doc

I am not sure what "claims" you specifically had in mind, particularly in terms of hetero/homo "guilt", in the three paragraphs you quoted from me. Could you specifically and clearly list them for me?

For example, regarding the first paragraph, are you asking for data demonstrating that there are public health concerns like the alarming occurrence of STD's?

Are you asking for data showing that, in cases where there are health concerns such as STD's, policy-makers have and may yet consider encouraging legal marriage as a one of multiple solutions?

Are you asking for data showing that it would make sense in such cases, and in terms of feasibility/viability, for policy-makers to consider the propensity of the target population to get married, and stay married, and remain faithful in the marriage?

Please clarify,

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_wenglund]

I may have been wrong in my assessment: maybe you are just too stupid to realize how transparent you are.

Don't worry. You aren't the only person on this board who resorts to baseless insults when clearly caught in a mistake.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_Bazooka]

I may have been wrong in my assessment: maybe you are just too stupid to realize how transparent you are.

Don't worry. You aren't the only person on this board who resorts to baseless insults when clearly caught in a mistake.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Wade, what IS your opinion On opposite sex Marriage and what data have you used to form that opinion?