Possible Modern Source for the Book of Mormon

[_gramps]

I am laughing so hard right now, my dog can't figure what's up! Good times!

I've always hung around Mormon discussion boards waiting and hoping the fraud would be figured out before I shake off this mortal coil.

I am really happy today reading this thread.

[_Shulem]

I really hope the faculty at Cassius is busy compiling, reviewing and getting ready to publish something on this.

I have personal knowledge DCP has been discussing this with several Mopologists today, and they are taking this very seriously. I anxiously await their response.

Never fear. The armies are on the march and I think the matter will go viral on the Internet soon enough. It's out of the hands of the apologists. The senior leadership of the church will have to deal with it head on!

Paul O

[_Gadianton]

This is a fun exercise. How about this?

LATE WAR, VI:14, Pg. 24:

14 And it came to pass, that a great multitude flocked to the banners of the great Sanhedrim.

Book of Mormon, Alma 62:5:

5 And it came to pass that thousands did flock unto his standard, and did take up their swords in the defence of their freedom, that they might not come into bondage.

-JV

ETA, also

Alma 61:6:

6 And behold, I have sent a proclamation throughout this part of the land; and behold, they are flocking to us daily, to their arms, in the defence of their country and their freedom, and to avenge our wrongs.

The context for the passages in both books is people choosing sides in a civil war between one side that is loyal to a king and the other side that is in favor of "freedom" from kings.

I'm jealous Juggler, I was looking for the origins of the title of liberty yesterday as part of my king-men/freemen research but couldn't find it. you get a major gold star.

[Guest]

So, it looks like he is saying that they have chosen clusters of four words (4grams) and compared them with a random sampling of 5000 books from the period of 1500 to 1830 other than the Book of Mormon. The results showed that there were 200 identical 4grams in the Book of Mormon and Hunt.

I would like to see this unpacked a little more. The jump from the discussion of how often a 4gram appears in the random sample set to the discussion of the overlap between Hunt and the Book of Mormon is a little confusing. It appears like he is saying that the highest instance you get of any 4gram in the entire random sample is 4 other works. Any 4gram only appears in a maximum of four of the works in the sample. So, the fact that the Book of Mormon and Hunt have an overlap of 200 4grams is astounding, given the likelihood of a random overlap.

Am I reading this correctly?

It looked like they "filtered out" the KJV, if I read that right.

The question is, how did they come up with the words? Imagine a hypothetically neutral baseline, if they ran that and discovered Late War in the process it would be awesome. However, If they were already aware of Late War already, and if they picked phrases already knowing the contents of the late war, it will be interesting to learn what kind of controls were used to avoid cherry picking.

Either way, the find is astounding. But I do tend to be on the skeptical side for any formal studies like this.

[_palerobber]

The Hebrew Background of the Book of Mormon, by John A. Tvedtnes

Construct State

When English shows a possessive or descriptive relationship between two nouns, it usually puts the possessive or descriptive noun first: the king's house or wood house. Hebrew, however, uses the opposite order: house the king (which would usually be translated house of the king) or house wood (house of wood). If the Hebrew word order is kept in the English translation, the word of must be added, even though it does not exist in the Hebrew.

The Book of Mormon contains a large number of what appear to be translations from the Hebrew preserving the Hebrew word order:
"plates of brass" instead of brass plates (1 Nephi 3:24)
"works of righteousness" instead of righteous works (Alma 5:16)
"words of plainness" instead of plain words (Jacob 4:14)
"chains of hell" instead of hell's chains (Alma 5:7)
"voice of the Spirit" instead of the Spirit's voice(1 Nephi 4:18)
"skin of blackness" instead of black skin (2 Nephi 5:21)
"night of darkness" instead of dark night (Alma 34:33)
"rod of iron" instead of iron rod (1 Nephi 8:19)

Ch. XXVI, p. 141

18 Now there were some amongst the tribes of the savages, who had been instructed in the ways of God, and taught to walk in the path of righteousness.

Ch. III, p. 28

33 Now the smooth words of Satan tickled Caleb mightily, and he hearkened unto the counsel of the wicked one;

Ch. III, p. 23

4 Then will we rule them with a rod of iron; and they shall be, unto us, hewers of wood and drawers of water.

Ch. XV, p. 81

17 And the winds moved the vessels about, and they strove to avoid the balls of lead, and the heavy balls of iron, that whistled about them in multitudes.

Ch. XXI, p. 119

38 Thy wickedness shall be written with a pen of iron, and with the point of a diamond.

[_Shulem]

I am laughing so hard right now, my dog can't figure what's up! Good times!

I've always hung around Mormon discussion boards waiting and hoping the fraud would be figured out before I shake off this mortal coil.

I am really happy today reading this thread.

Yes, it is a glorious celebration -- watching before our eyes the Book of Mormon being stripped naked and paraded before the world as a whore!

I am so grateful that this has been discovered and the fine workmanship that is about to take place in exposing the Book of Mormon nakedness. This is truly the greatest moment of this board, I think. The tide is really changing and the apologists are going to be fluttering about in lifeboats wondering what the hell to do next!



Paul O

[_Sethbag]

I'm in awe. I haven't seen pure awesomeness like this all come about inside a single day in, well, forever.

And all so we can justify our decision to drink coffee.

[_Ceeboo]

I'm in awe. I haven't seen pure awesomeness like this all come about inside a single day in, well, forever.

And all so we can justify our decision to drink coffee.

Peace,
Ceeboo

[_mms]

You guys are hilarious. Where did all the critical thinkers on the board go?

24 hours ago, Nevo wrote the above.

[_gramps]

I'm in awe. I haven't seen pure awesomeness like this all come about inside a single day in, well, forever.

And all so we can justify our decision to drink coffee.

Or good German beer!