Joseph and Fanny-Asking for Will's Opinion in Particular

[_Yong Xi]

Sometimes, I think on this issue, heck, knowing how men hate emotional confrontation, Joseph must have sincerely believed he was right, otherwise he wouldn't have put himself through all the hastle that he got from 'many' quarters, including from his nearest and dearest.

A quick fling in the barn, hardly compensates for all the flack he got thrown at him for the practice. Of course, I could be everso wrong. Just some thoughts.

When men start thinking with their genitals, they are blinded to the future ramifications. History is full of examples of men in very public positions thinking they could manage their affairs. It's a form of hubris. Bill Clinton, John Edwards, Elliot Spitzer come to mind. Joseph Smith did spin it better than the others, however.

[_why me]

Joseph Smith did spin it better than the others, however.

So you are a critic who believes that Joseph was a horny toad, right?

[_why me]

My position is this: clearly Joseph Smith desired to have sex with women other than Emma, and likely was the type of man to form quick infatuations on multiple women. I think that is beyond dispute. In addition, Joseph Smith wanted to find a way to satisfy this desire while maintaining his religious stature - either due to genuine belief, or due to desire to persuade followers. The result: spiritual wifery.

Said very nice and sweet. Why me's translation: Joseph was a horny toad.

[_why me]

Sometimes, I think on this issue, heck, knowing how men hate emotional confrontation, Joseph must have sincerely believed he was right, otherwise he wouldn't have put himself through all the hastle that he got from 'many' quarters, including from his nearest and dearest.

A quick fling in the barn, hardly compensates for all the flack he got thrown at him for the practice. Of course, I could be everso wrong. Just some thoughts.

Yes, you are right. Joseph Smith did not need polygamy to have sex. He could have gotten on his horse and headed to the whore house two counties over. No problem and much safer to his life if one disregards some the stds at that time.

[_Ray A]

Yes, you are right. Joseph Smith did not need polygamy to have sex. He could have gotten on his horse and headed to the whore house two counties over.

Some claimed he did:

May 21, 1886, I had a fresh interview with Mrs. Sarah M. Pratt, who had the kindness to give me the following testimony additional to the information given by her in our interviews in the spring of 1885. "I want you to have all my statements correct in your book," said the noble lady, "and put my name to them; I want the truth, the full truth, to be known, and bear the responsibility of it.

"I have told you that the prophet Joseph used to frequent houses of ill-fame. Mrs. White, a very pretty and attractive woman, once confessed to me that she made a business of it to be hospitable to the captains of the Mississippi steamboats. She told me that Joseph had made her acquaintance very soon after his arrival in Nauvoo, and that he had visited her dozens of times. My husband (Orson Pratt) could not be induced to believe such things of his prophet. Seeing his obstinate incredulity, Mrs. White proposed to Mr. Pratt and myself to put us in a position where we could observe what was going on between herself and Joseph the prophet. We, however, declined this proposition. You have made a mistake in the table of contents of your book in calling this woman "Mrs. Harris." Mrs. [G. W.] Harris was a married lady, a very great friend of mine. When Joseph had made his dastardly attempt on me, I went to Mrs. Harris to unbosom my grief to her. To my utter astonishment, she said, laughing heartily: "How foolish you are! I don't see anything so horrible in it. Why, I AM HIS MISTRESS SINCE FOUR YEARS!"

"Next door to my house was a house of bad reputation. One single woman lived there, not very attractive. She used to be visited by people from Carthage whenever they came to Nauvoo. Joseph used to come on horseback, ride up to the house and tie his horse to a tree, many of which stood before the house. Then he would enter the house of the woman from the back. I have seen him do this repeatedly.

"Joseph Smith, the son of the prophet, and president of the re-organized Mormon church, paid me a visit, and I had a long talk with him. I saw that he was not inclined to believe the truth about his father, so I said to him: 'You pretend to have revelations from the Lord. Why don't you ask the Lord to tell you what kind of a man your father really was?' He answered: 'If my father had so many connections with women, where is the progeny?' I said to him: 'Your father had mostly intercourse with married women, and as to single ones, Dr. Bennett was always on hand, when anything happened.'

Mormon Portraits I

[_Yong Xi]

Joseph Smith did spin it better than the others, however.

So you are a critic who believes that Joseph was a horny toad, right?

From this day forward, and for the rest of my life, whenever I hear the phrase "horny toad", I will think of why me.

[_Mary]

Sometimes, I think on this issue, heck, knowing how men hate emotional confrontation, Joseph must have sincerely believed he was right, otherwise he wouldn't have put himself through all the hastle that he got from 'many' quarters, including from his nearest and dearest.

A quick fling in the barn, hardly compensates for all the flack he got thrown at him for the practice. Of course, I could be everso wrong. Just some thoughts.

Yes, you are right. Joseph Smith did not need polygamy to have sex. He could have gotten on his horse and headed to the whore house two counties over. No problem and much safer to his life if one disregards some the stds at that time.

According to some of the early reports that is exactly what he did Why me.

I do think that Joseph had a very good sex drive should we say, but I don't think that is 'all' that drove him. He was much more complex than that.

I think he was able to take on these women, because, whether commanded or not, he could.
If Rod Stewart was stripped of his musical talent and his money, I doubt Penny Lancaster would have given him a second look, as a more contemporary example.

A pity that Joseph died at such a young age really, had he really had the opportunity to age a little, into his 40's and 50's say, he may have mellowed out a lot.

(Ray...that was the one I was thinking of, thanks.)

[_Ray A]

While there may be nothing scientific about this, Joseph Smith's phrenology chart was published in the seven volume History of the Church. I'm linking to another site:

Times and Seasons.

Saturday, 2 [July 1841].
In this day’s Wasp, I find the following:—

Mr. Editor:
Sir:—

I take the liberty to inform you that a large number of persons in different places have manifested a desire to know the phrenological development of Joseph Smith’s head. I have examined the Prophet’s head, and he is perfectly willing to have the chart published. You will please publish in your paper such portions of it as I have marked, showing the development of his much-talked-of brain, and let the public judge for themselves whether phrenology proves the reports against him true or false. Time will prove all thing, and a “word to the wise is sufficient.”

Yours respectfully,
A. Crane.

A Phrenological Chart of Joseph Smith the Prophet by A. Crane, M.D., Professor of Phrenology.

Propensities.
Amativeness—11, L. Extreme susceptibility; passionately fond of the company of the other sex.
Philoprogenitiveness—9, L. Strong parental affection, great solicitude for their happiness.
Inhabitiveness—5, F. Attached to place of long residence; no desire to change residence.
Adhesiveness—8, F. Solicitous for the happiness of friends, and ardent attachments for the other sex.
Combativeness—8, L. Indomitable perseverance, great courage; force, ability to overpower.
Destructiveness—6, M. Ability to control the passions, and is not disposed to extreme measures.
Secretiveness—10, L. Great propensity and ability to conceal feelings, plans, &c.
Acquisitiveness—9, L. Strong love of riches, desire to make and save money.
Alimentativeness—9, L. Strong relish for food; keen and severe appetite.
Vitativeness—4, M. or S. Indifference to life; views the approach of death without fear.

Smith apparently agreed with this, as noted: "..he is perfectly willing to have the chart published."

[_Mary]

Ray, I've never seen that before. Really interesting. Really interesting. Thanks

From wiki:

Amativeness is also a concept of phrenology.[1]It is the faculty concerned with physical love and sexual attraction. When it is strongly developed, it may represent carnality and licentiousness. When underdeveloped: coldness, frigidity, indifference towards the opposite sex.

In phrenology, the locus of amativeness is located on the lower back of the head, behind the ears.[2]

[_Ray A]

Ray, I've never seen that before. Really interesting. Really interesting. Thanks

History of the Church 5:52-55. I first read this in c.1983, still very active, and at the time I thought, "this is weird". Little did I know what else was in store.