Themis wrote:Why would you want to hear what the church says about the critics. Maybe you should seek to see what the Church, or even better, LDS Egyptologists say about the papyri.
This whole thing amounts to accusations of fraud by the LDS Church. I believe the LDS Church has the right to respond to those accusations of fraud, and I think I need to listen to that response with an open mind.
Drifting wrote:If the scriptural canon within Mormonism, given by direct translation from God, is errant well that would I think be a clear indicator that either it's all false or God cannot be trusted to give us accurate information.
I have no trust that God has given "us accurate information." I haven't had any such trust for quite a while now. I don't think the purpose of the scriptures is to convey to us accurate information anywhere near as much as it is to lead us to an understanding of the things God wants us to know. God inspired the Book of Abraham as a way of getting us to know those things He wants us to know. Errancy doesn't stop that process; all errancy means is that God let some factual errors creep into the scriptures that God nonetheless considers adequate to point us in the right direction.
KevinSim wrote:You certainly sound like you're drawing a distinction between evidence that a faith group's deity doesn't exist and evidence "against it." If evidence "against it" is not the same thing as evidence that its deity doesn't exist, then what does "evidence against it" mean?
KevinSim wrote:This whole thing amounts to accusations of fraud by the LDS Church. I believe the LDS Church has the right to respond to those accusations of fraud, and I think I need to listen to that response with an open mind.
Fraud would be from Joseph. If you mean by church, the leaders themselves responding to these accusations, I would think even you know this will not happen. This does not mean you cannot learn the issues to really understand the problems with an open mind. I never wanted the church to not be true. I was always interested in all sides and what they had to say.
Drifting wrote:If the scriptural canon within Mormonism, given by direct translation from God, is errant well that would I think be a clear indicator that either it's all false or God cannot be trusted to give us accurate information.
I have no trust that God has given "us accurate information." I haven't had any such trust for quite a while now. I don't think the purpose of the scriptures is to convey to us accurate information anywhere near as much as it is to lead us to an understanding of the things God wants us to know. God inspired the Book of Abraham as a way of getting us to know those things He wants us to know. Errancy doesn't stop that process; all errancy means is that God let some factual errors creep into the scriptures that God nonetheless considers adequate to point us in the right direction.
The problems with the Book of Abraham is far more then simple mistakes by Men. Fallibility is really being used to ignore anything.
Drifting wrote:If the scriptural canon within Mormonism, given by direct translation from God, is errant well that would I think be a clear indicator that either it's all false or God cannot be trusted to give us accurate information.
I have no trust that God has given "us accurate information." I haven't had any such trust for quite a while now. I don't think the purpose of the scriptures is to convey to us accurate information anywhere near as much as it is to lead us to an understanding of the things God wants us to know. God inspired the Book of Abraham as a way of getting us to know those things He wants us to know. Errancy doesn't stop that process; all errancy means is that God let some factual errors creep into the scriptures that God nonetheless considers adequate to point us in the right direction.
Kevin, if you cannot trust the accuracy of the scriptures upon which the Church is formed, how on earth can you claim to know the Church is 'all true'?
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