Kishkumen wrote:I hope I have learned my lesson about the inevitable results of starting a thread with JD's name on it. One's motives and intentions will be questioned. Your friends will ask you what the hell you are doing. Certain people will show up to vent their feelings about JD to the point that it becomes nearly impossible to talk about the subject of the OP.
I apologize to everyone. I regret constructing the thread as I did. I know I didn't mean what many think I meant by doing this, but now I know better. There are certain topics that always end in the same unfortunately predictable way. It's the nature of the beast.
Rev. your post is totally accurate in my opinion but no apology is necessary because it should not have centered on JD and MS and MD, I saw those as examples to expand the subject of spying in the church. I have my own story of being spied upon and I am sure others do too, but the thread took a turn and I think a lot of other personal examples have been lost in the discussion. You're right about sometimes it is just the nature of the beast.
cwald wrote:I am interested in hearing your experience about spying
Me, too!
So you're chasing around a fly and in your world, I'm the idiot?
"Friends don't let friends be Mormon." Sock Puppet, MDB.
Music is my drug of choice.
"And that is precisely why none of us apologize for holding it to the celestial standard it pretends that it possesses." Kerry, MDB _________________
Kishkumen wrote:What Maksutov says here rings so true to me, and I am neither a convert nor much of a Utahn. Even on a physical level, I felt uncomfortable with the degree to which others in the mission and at BYU presumed to get in my personal space and touch me. I grew up near DC, and people there hardly ever invaded one's personal space like that. Over time I got more accustomed to it, but I really did feel assaulted by the intrusiveness of it all.
The same is true of the ecclesiastical intrusiveness. Obviously, like most people out there, the very personal and detailed question about issues of personal sexuality from the age of 12 years old on were borderline abusive. It is completely unacceptable for the Church to do. Invading the bedrooms of married couples is only slightly less creepy. One of the worst invasions was using young missionaries to ask women whether they had ever had an abortion in a baptismal interview. The many layers of wrongness there are staggering to contemplate.
OMG! You saw this happen? I had never heard of that specific question being asked! How horrible!
So you're chasing around a fly and in your world, I'm the idiot?
"Friends don't let friends be Mormon." Sock Puppet, MDB.
Music is my drug of choice.
"And that is precisely why none of us apologize for holding it to the celestial standard it pretends that it possesses." Kerry, MDB _________________
cwald wrote: I am interested in hearing your experience about spying
Thanx, cwald, I will put something together on it when I get a little more time, hopefully tonight. Spoiler alert though it is spying on the member to member level and up to Stake President level. It never rose to a level of anything "high" profile.
PS Sorry we couldn't meet up last weekend but it was very short notice on my part. Had a pleasant drive through Silver Lake and Christmas Valley that was my first time I traveled that route. Now that I am familiar with the route we will try to meet up on my next visit to the coast, probably Jan or Feb, but winter travel plans are subject to which pass is open. Cheers
a.k.a. Pokatatorjoined Oct 26, 2006 and permanently banned from MAD Nov 6, 2006
"Stop being such a damned coward and use your real name to own your position."
"That's what he gets for posting in his own name."
2 different threads same day 2 hours apart Yohoo Bat 12/1/2015
Kishkumen wrote:One of the worst invasions was using young missionaries to ask women whether they had ever had an abortion in a baptismal interview. The many layers of wrongness there are staggering to contemplate.
the wrongness on that is layered. we agree on that.
not sure what the process was in your mission, but if the answer was yes - then it started moving up up up the ladder. DL calls the ZL, ZL calls the office, office calls the MP, MP calls back down to the DL or ZL. we streamlined a bit in our mission, but the process was certainly one that did not include any amount of confidentiality.
if i recall, there were 5 big questions to ask. abortion, felony/crime, gay, something about divorces/marriages/kids, and something else. i can't remember it all.
"Rocks don't speak for themselves" is an unfortunate phrase to use in defense of a book produced by a rock actually 'speaking' for itself... (I have a Question, 5.15.15)
Jesse Pinkman wrote:I didn't realize that was a standard question that was asked. What was the typical reaction of the women you asked?
I will never forget the time one woman who broke down in sobs when she told me that she had had an abortion. It was one of the most difficult experiences I endured as a missionary. Of course, I was completely out of my depth. Thankfully, I do not recall who the woman was. It was the only time I ever interacted with her--something else that shows you how messed up the situation truly is.
The whole thing is distasteful in so many ways. I feel guilty for ever having participated in such a practice.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
Mayan Elephant wrote:the wrongness on that is layered. we agree on that.
not sure what the process was in your mission, but if the answer was yes - then it started moving up up up the ladder. DL calls the ZL, ZL calls the office, office calls the MP, MP calls back down to the DL or ZL. we streamlined a bit in our mission, but the process was certainly one that did not include any amount of confidentiality.
if i recall, there were 5 big questions to ask. abortion, felony/crime, gay, something about divorces/marriages/kids, and something else. i can't remember it all.
Your memory accords with mine. I had a couple of investigators who had to be sent up the chain of command in that way. One needed permission from the FP.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
The long and short of the story is that there are so many ways in which the priesthood interviewing process is creepy and messed up that I think it qualifies as a routinized invasion of privacy--one that breaks down people's resistance to invading the privacy of others or having their privacy invaded in a variety of mundane ways.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist