Interpreter apologists wrestle with Nephi’s transoceanic vessel

[MG 2.0]

That is curious. Are there examples of a similar usage by others in Joseph Smith’s world and writings that were readily available to him?

Examples?

It is indeed curious that Nephi would use that descriptor.

Or not??

Regards,
MG

https://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/m/Mormon ... l&size=All

The Book of Mormon

7 matches.

THE TESTIMONY OF EIGHT WITNESSES

Be it known unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, unto whom this work shall come: That Joseph Smith, Jun., the translator of this work, has shown unto us the plates of which hath been spoken, which have the appearance of gold; and as many of the leaves as the said Smith has translated we did handle with our hands; and we also saw the engravings thereon, all of which has the appearance of ancient work, and of curious workmanship. And this we bear record with words of soberness, that the said Smith has shown unto us, for we have seen and hefted, and know of a surety that the said Smith has got the plates of which we have spoken. And we give our names unto the world, to witness unto the world that which we have seen. And we lie not, God bearing witness of it.


THE FIRST BOOK OF NEPHI, HIS REIGN AND MINISTRY

1 Nephi 16

[10] And it came to pass that as my father arose in the morning, and went forth to the tent door, to his great astonishment he beheld upon the ground a round ball of curious workmanship; and it was of fine brass. And within the ball were two spindles; and the one pointed the way whither we should go into the wilderness.

1 Nephi 18
[1] And it came to pass that they did worship the Lord, and did go forth with me; and we did work timbers of curious workmanship. And the Lord did show me from time to time after what manner I should work the timbers of the ship.


THE BOOK OF ALMA THE SON OF ALMA

Alma 37
[39] And behold, there cannot any man work after the manner of so curious a workmanship. And behold, it was prepared to show unto our fathers the course which they should travel in the wilderness.

Alma 63
[5] And it came to pass that Hagoth, he being an exceedingly curious man, therefore he went forth and built him an exceedingly large ship, on the borders of the land Bountiful, by the land Desolation, and launched it forth into the west sea, by the narrow neck which led into the land northward.


THE BOOK OF HELAMAN

Helaman 6
[11] And behold, there was all manner of gold in both these lands, and of silver, and of precious ore of every kind; and there were also curious workmen, who did work all kinds of ore and did refine it; and thus they did become rich.


THE BOOK OF ETHER

Ether 10
[27] And they did make all manner of weapons of war. And they did work all manner of work of exceedingly curious workmanship.
.

Another showing/demonstration of 19th century and thereabouts word usage and phraseology in the Book of Mormon.

Bushman said:

I think right now the Book of Mormon is a puzzle for us. Even [for] people who believe it in every detail, it’s a puzzle. To begin with, we’ve got the puzzle of translation. Translating the book without the plates even in sight, wrapped up in a cloth on the table. It’s not something that comes right off the pages, [that is] the characters on the plates. So we don’t know how that works. And then there’s the fact that there’s phrasing everywhere, long phrases that if you Google them, you’ll find them in 19th century writings. The theology of the Book of Mormon is very much 19th century theology, and it reads like a 19th century understanding of the Hebrew Bible, as an Old Testament: that is, it has Christ in it, the way Protestants saw Christ everywhere in the Old Testament.

https://wheatandtares.org/2017/11/08/19 ... of-Mormon/

It’s a matter of fact that this is true. We then have to decide what do do with that don’t we?

Regards,
MG

[Marcus]

Interesting points made by bushman...

...and then there’s the fact that there’s phrasing everywhere, long phrases that if you Google them, you’ll find them in 19th century writings. The theology of the Book of Mormon is very much 19th century theology, and it reads like a 19th century understanding of the Hebrew Bible...

[Shulem]

perhaps a bird suggested the phrase

"Once upon a midnight dreary, while I pondered, weak and weary,
Over many a quaint and curious volume of forgotten lore—
While I nodded, nearly napping, suddenly there came a tapping,
As of some one gently rapping, rapping at my chamber door."

//////
But that is not the same curious.
Well no but the word brings a scent.

Yes it does, even in Star Trek:

Mr Spock

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

MG > tHaT iS curIoUs … aRe tHeRe eXaMpLes of hUrR gUrR DuRR???

*For the umpteenth time over the last 25 years someone tells MG about the connection to the Late War*

MG > *crickets* *says some nonsense that ignores answer to his retarded-repeat-question*

Did MG serve a mission? Because I feel like he’s compensating for something like not serving a mission when he was younger. This kind of donkey-tier drudgery he does, over 25 years now, it’s definitely connected to to some regret he’s trying to work out.

- Doc

[Everybody Wang Chung]

it’s definitely connected to to some regret he’s trying to work out.
- Doc

[Moksha]

The point that I'm making is that I've hovered over the lush area of the Arabian coast using Google Earth and do not see any 50-foot trees.

What if they placed a large lumber and woodworking tool order from India via Amazon Carrier Pidgeon? Bet you never thought of an apologetic possibility such as that, huh? It is worthy of being the feature article in the Interpreter.

[Shulem]

The point that I'm making is that I've hovered over the lush area of the Arabian coast using Google Earth and do not see any 50-foot trees.

What if they placed a large lumber and woodworking tool order from India via Amazon Carrier Pidgeon? Bet you never thought of an apologetic possibility such as that, huh? It is worthy of being the feature article in the Interpreter.

The point has already been made that they left Jerusalem with basically nothing except for the clothes on their backs and provisions to lead a life of roaming nomads in the wilderness and desert. They left their wealth back in Jerusalem and even that was lost to Laban in securing the brass plates which according to the story was the only thing of monetary value in which they took with them. When Nephi broke his bow their family was in real trouble. They had little to sustain them and lived from day to day until they finally arrived in Bountiful as a poor and wandering band of nomads.

Securing lumber from foreign trade via shipping would have cost an enormous amount of capital and the price tag for such a venture far exceeded anything they could afford. It's simply out of the question. The bottom line is when they entered Bountiful they were alone and everything in which they were blessed with was prepared for them by the Lord to include:

• Wild Honey

• Fruit

• Timber

[Chap]

On 'curious':

The usage in connection with 'work' is found in the King James translation of the Old Testament, with which Smith would have been at least as familiar as my own upbringing made me. I remembered reading it, but used Bible Gateway to save me turning pages:

https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearc ... ersion=KJV

3 Bible results for “curious work” from
King James Version.
Results 1-3.

Exodus 28:8
And the curious girdle of the ephod, which is upon it, shall be of the same, according to the work thereof; even of gold, of blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

Exodus 35:32
And to devise curious works, to work in gold, and in silver, and in brass,
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

Exodus 39:5
And the curious girdle of his ephod, that was upon it, was of the same, according to the work thereof; of gold, blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen; as the Lord commanded Moses.

The Oxford English dictionary has examples of this usage up into the 18th century. Sense #4 is the relevant one in the present context:

Etymology: < Old French curius ( Ch. de Rol., 11th cent.) = Provençal curios, Spanish curioso, Italian curioso < Latin cūriōsus used only subjectively ‘full of care or pains, careful, assiduous, inquisitive’; French has also the objective sense in 14th cent. (robes curieuses).

4. Ingenious, skilful, clever, expert. Obsolete.
1489 (▸a1380) J. Barbour Bruce (Adv.) x. 359 A crafty man and a curious.
c1540 (▸?a1400) Destr. Troy 11677 A tre, But no clerke is so corious to ken vs the nome.
1582 T. Watson Ἑκατομπαθία: Passionate Cent. Loue Ep. Ded. The curious pensill of Apelles.
1651 T. Fuller Abel Redevivus 446 A curious Limner was employed to draw his picture to the life.
1715 J. Richardson Ess. Theory of Painting 28 A curious Mechanick's Hand must be exquisite.
1782 H. Walpole Vertue's Anecd. Painting (ed. 3) III. App. 295 That neat and curious painter Vander Heyden.

When I was at school, my English teacher gave as an example of this early usage an advertisement by an 18th century agent for domestic workers, who told his clients that he had several 'curious women' on his books who were looking for posts as housekeepers. As ignorant 12 year olds we found this delightfully weird.

Unexpectedly, 'care' does not come from the same Latin root as 'curious' as one might have expected, but from Germanic roots.

[Moksha]

Securing lumber from foreign trade via shipping would have cost an enormous amount of capital and the price tag for such a venture far exceeded anything they could afford.

The marvel of apologetic arguments is they do not have to make sense, they simply need to exist. That way the members can be told that the question has been dealt with. Asked and answered, Brother.

[Moksha]

3 Bible results for “curious work” from
King James Version.
Results 1-3.

Exodus 28:8
And the curious girdle of the ephod, which is upon it, shall be of the same, according to the work thereof; even of gold, of blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

Exodus 35:32
And to devise curious works, to work in gold, and in silver, and in brass,
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

Exodus 39:5
And the curious girdle of his ephod, that was upon it, was of the same, according to the work thereof; of gold, blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen; as the Lord commanded Moses.

I think Dr. Hugh Nibley had something similar.