Mickelson Case: GA coverup cont.,

[_kairos]

Thanx for the abo summary update!

What should be driving all of this and what is the most important issue is whether mickleson sexually abused his granddaughter. that issue can only be resolved if the alleged victim can recall with credibility her abuse by the mickleson, then it his word against her word which in the civil arena could go to discovery/depositions and then to a trial. if a third party witnessed the abuse or if another person claims mickleson abused him/her, the case for the granddaughter is stronger. if a parent or third party went to a Mormon bishop and said I believe mickleson is abusing the daughter that would require, under current policy in the church, an immediate call to the police after the bishop does due diligence; under past church policy the bishop could cover up, call mickleson in and get his story, call in the victim and get her story-phone calls to slc would also occur now, but were not required in the past.

I think Karren's daughter should file a civil suit(has one been filed?) against mickleson and possibly the Mormon church. this would really take things to a new level. the daughter would have to have a very good sex abuse lawyer like tim kosnoff who won a big case in the 90's against the Mormon church in civil court in a case of 3 decades of sex abuse of "momon" children in Portland, Oregon in the 70's to 90's. the mcconkie law team powered up to delay that case for about 4 years, finally settling. that story is in the book "The Sins of Brother Curtis" which has been mentioned on this board or by RK. it is a good read particularly in laying out how bishops covered up and took no action against the perp until much abuse had

other than a civil lawsuit, RK will get media? attention, but not much else and the daughter will still not have been helped toward healing etc. the whole extended family will still be living in dysfunction.

just a bit of lawyerin
k

[_kairos]

Thanx for the above summary update!

What should be driving all of this and what is the most important issue is whether mickleson sexually abused his granddaughter. that issue can only be resolved if the alleged victim can recall with credibility her abuse by the mickleson, then it his word against her word which in the civil arena could go to discovery/depositions and then to a trial. if a third party witnessed the abuse or if another person claims mickleson abused him/her, the case for the granddaughter is stronger. if a parent or third party went to a Mormon bishop and said I believe mickleson is abusing the daughter that would require, under current policy in the church, an immediate call to the police after the bishop does due diligence; under past church policy the bishop could cover up, call mickleson in and get his story, call in the victim and get her story-phone calls to slc would also occur now, but were not required in the past.

I think Karren's daughter should file a civil suit(has one been filed?) against mickleson and possibly the Mormon church. this would really take things to a new level. the daughter would have to have a very good sex abuse lawyer like tim kosnoff who won a big case in the 90's against the Mormon church in civil court in a case of 3 decades of sex abuse of "momon" children in Portland, Oregon in the 70's to 90's. the mcconkie law team powered up to delay that case for about 4 years, finally settling. that story is in the book "The Sins of Brother Curtis" which has been mentioned on this board or by RK. it is a good read particularly in laying out how bishops covered up and took no action against the perp until much abuse had
occurred-the mcconkie law team tactics are unbelievable-they are real assholes!
other than a civil lawsuit, RK will get media? attention, but not much else and the daughter will still not have been helped toward healing etc. the whole extended family will still be living in dysfunction.

just a bit of lawyerin
k

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

I'll jump back in for a second since a summary was provided.

I think the child was coached by the father in order to gain leverage in a divorce motivated by self-preservation by the wife, and subsequent actions as revenge by Mr. Karren.

- Doc

[_Res Ipsa]

RI, believe it or not, I actually agree with you. But if Ron truly believes Micklesen is a child abuser then this would explain his behaviour pretty well.

The nasty affidavits produced by the Micklesen side, the attempts by the Micklesen side to poison the children against their father, to use wider ecclesiatical pressure against the kids and anyone supporting Ron, would have put him, I think, in fight or flight mode. Having a psychologist on board who specialises in battered wife syndrome, was LDS, and took the mother's side against a guy who already feels the whole world is working against him, just compounded the problem not only for him but the kids also.

What I have noticed about royal lds families (and we did have a few over here in the UK) is that they tend to live behind a kind of righteous, loving façade, when a s*** storm can be occurring behind the scenes. I have personal experience of watching this in my own youth. The Mickelsen's will have had years of that. It's in their blood. Rightly or wrongly.

Ron, I think, has tried to explain the rather unnecessary actions taken against him (begun by the wider Micklesen clan with the involvement of an LDS apostle semi related to the clan), he does this by seeing Micklesen as hiding behind the coat tails of the church to protect his pedophile past. There are other explanations, including a father protecting his daughter solely against a vicious, arrogant, abusive, controlling husband, but I don't buy that extreme.

The whole thing is puzzling. But underneath that we still have the very likely possibility of a sexually abused minor who was continually shut down under the guise that her father had fabricated her abuse for revenge. That needs to be sorted and I don't think any of the family will find peace until it is.

The more I read, the less puzzling I find the whole thing. Just a few assumptions make the whole thing completely understandable to me.

1. Ron exhibits some pretty classic characteristics associated with NPD. (Not pretending to diagnose, but recognizing similarities in behavior)
2. Ron has a temper that he is at times unable to control.
3. His wife at some point became afraid of him to the point she wanted out of the marriage despite being the daughter of a general authority.
4. His wife communicated that fear to her husband.

That's all it takes for me. If I'm anywhere close to right, there will never be peace in this family.

[_Res Ipsa]

Thanx for the abo summary update!

What should be driving all of this and what is the most important issue is whether mickleson sexually abused his granddaughter. that issue can only be resolved if the alleged victim can recall with credibility her abuse by the mickleson, then it his word against her word which in the civil arena could go to discovery/depositions and then to a trial. if a third party witnessed the abuse or if another person claims mickleson abused him/her, the case for the granddaughter is stronger. if a parent or third party went to a Mormon bishop and said I believe mickleson is abusing the daughter that would require, under current policy in the church, an immediate call to the police after the bishop does due diligence; under past church policy the bishop could cover up, call mickleson in and get his story, call in the victim and get her story-phone calls to Salt Lake City would also occur now, but were not required in the past.

I think Karren's daughter should file a civil suit(has one been filed?) against mickleson and possibly the Mormon church. this would really take things to a new level. the daughter would have to have a very good sex abuse lawyer like tim kosnoff who won a big case in the 90's against the Mormon church in civil court in a case of 3 decades of sex abuse of "momon" children in Portland, Oregon in the 70's to 90's. the mcconkie law team powered up to delay that case for about 4 years, finally settling. that story is in the book "The Sins of Brother Curtis" which has been mentioned on this board or by RK. it is a good read particularly in laying out how bishops covered up and took no action against the perp until much abuse had

other than a civil lawsuit, RK will get media? attention, but not much else and the daughter will still not have been helped toward healing etc. the whole extended family will still be living in dysfunction.

just a bit of lawyerin
k

You're welcome.

[_Res Ipsa]

From memory, corrections and additions welcome:

1. Pace report comes out in 1991. Karren has immediate access to it.
2. Karren's daughter demonstrates pre-sexualized behavior with her grandfather. (Late 1990s?)

2002

3. Several years pass that give Karren enough sense of stability in his marriage that his wife's filing of divorce papers will come as a surprise.

Something happened that led Jean to go to her Bishop, a "professional", and her father about wanting a divorce about a year before she filed.

4. Karren's wife goes on a long trip with family. (2006?)

I think this was earlier.

5. Karren receives his wife's surprise divorce filing. (2006)
6. Karren immediately threatens his wife saying she will lose the kids if she divorces him.
7. Karren files accusations of child sexual abuse against Mikelsen in response to the divorce filing.

I think you have the order reversed. It looks to me like the affidavits filed by friends and family on behalf of Jean were filed before Ron introduced sexual abuse into the case

8. Karren's wife files a request for temporary relief asking for an evaluation of Karren's fitness as a parent and money to pay the bills (the "affidavits").

I think the motion was for a custodial evaluation -- not just an evaluation of Ron's fitness.

9. Karren's daughter remembers her grandfather sexually abusing her (6 months after "affidavits").

Something like 20 months after the affidavits, 8 months after Ron introduces sexual abuse allegations into the divorce.

10. Karren makes covert recording of his ex-wife and her attorney and uses the recording to leverage primary custody.

I've seen no corroborating evidence of this. I'm highly skeptical of Ron's account of what happened.

11. Family conflict continues, ten years pass.

The divorce is final in 2009. In 2012 McKay is told by his bishop he can't go on a mission unless he forgives and loves his grandfather. Ron files complaint against the therapist and sues the church for violation of the separation of religion and state.

12. Mormon media moment arises. Opportunity to address child abuse publicly and be listened to arises.
12. Karren makes public accusation against Mikelsen and says his daughter is going to publicly accuse Mikelsen as well.
14. Karren builds the stage to make the claim that his divorce was a conspiracy put together by Mikelsen and Scott using his ex-wife's motions for temporary orders (the "affidavits") and evidence that his ex-wife's father paid for the divorce to support that conspiracy. Karren brings up the 1991 Pace report during his public accusations.

[_Jersey Girl]

The more I read, the less puzzling I find the whole thing. Just a few assumptions make the whole thing completely understandable to me.

1. Ron exhibits some pretty classic characteristics associated with NPD. (Not pretending to diagnose, but recognizing similarities in behavior)
2. Ron has a temper that he is at times unable to control.
3. His wife at some point became afraid of him to the point she wanted out of the marriage despite being the daughter of a general authority.
4. His wife communicated that fear to her husband.

That's all it takes for me. If I'm anywhere close to right, there will never be peace in this family.

I think I commented on this on another thread. If you are correct, RI, I was entirely wrong. I'll try to read through this thread when I can. I just started reading it backwards beginning with this post of yours.

[_Jersey Girl]

Question to those following: If I am not mistaken this is the 2nd thread about this case. That said, do I need to review the first thread before I can understand the content of this thread?

[_Res Ipsa]

Question to those following: If I am not mistaken this is the 2nd thread about this case. That said, do I need to review the first thread before I can understand the content of this thread?

No, I think this thread pretty much covers the waterfront.

If you really want to understand it, you have to sift through Ron's blog and the documents. Not suggesting you do, unless you're snowed in again...

[_Jersey Girl]

Question to those following: If I am not mistaken this is the 2nd thread about this case. That said, do I need to review the first thread before I can understand the content of this thread?

No, I think this thread pretty much covers the waterfront.

If you really want to understand it, you have to sift through Ron's blog and the documents. Not suggesting you do, unless you're snowed in again...

I just began reading from post #1. ;-)

No snow!