What lies did the Nauvoo Expositor print?
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Re: What lies did the Nauvoo Expositor print?
Hello Beefcalf.
Thank you for the wonderful and sincere compliments. I have never experienced such kind words on this forum. Now to answer your question: The Nauvoo Expositor was a yellow journalistic tabloid, founded by an enemy of the LDS church's leadership. My issue with the expositor is in the way they described Joseph Smith. It was inflamatory and inciteful. Now if they would have puiblished a nice and polite article about polygamy and Joseph Smith, I would have no problem with the paper. My problem is with the way the articles were written. I would include this as being one sided:
Resolved 4th, That the [b]hostile spirit and conduct manifested by Joseph Smith, and many of his associates towards Missouri, and others inimical to his purposes, are decidedly at variance with the true spirit of Christianity, and should not be encouraged by any people, much less by those professing to be the ministers of the gospel of peace. [/b]
We are earnestly seeking to explode the vicious principles of Joseph Smith, and those who practice the same abominations and whoredoms; which we verily know are not accordant and consonant with the principles of Jesus Christ and the Apostles;
I am sure that I could find other examples. But these type of sentences and the way that others are written would not create a peaceful atmosphere between Mormons and non Mormons. William Law was engaged in bitterness and hostility against a single man and the other leaders of the LDS church.
Thank you for the wonderful and sincere compliments. I have never experienced such kind words on this forum. Now to answer your question: The Nauvoo Expositor was a yellow journalistic tabloid, founded by an enemy of the LDS church's leadership. My issue with the expositor is in the way they described Joseph Smith. It was inflamatory and inciteful. Now if they would have puiblished a nice and polite article about polygamy and Joseph Smith, I would have no problem with the paper. My problem is with the way the articles were written. I would include this as being one sided:
Resolved 4th, That the [b]hostile spirit and conduct manifested by Joseph Smith, and many of his associates towards Missouri, and others inimical to his purposes, are decidedly at variance with the true spirit of Christianity, and should not be encouraged by any people, much less by those professing to be the ministers of the gospel of peace. [/b]
We are earnestly seeking to explode the vicious principles of Joseph Smith, and those who practice the same abominations and whoredoms; which we verily know are not accordant and consonant with the principles of Jesus Christ and the Apostles;
I am sure that I could find other examples. But these type of sentences and the way that others are written would not create a peaceful atmosphere between Mormons and non Mormons. William Law was engaged in bitterness and hostility against a single man and the other leaders of the LDS church.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith
We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith
Joseph Smith
We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith
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Re: What lies did the Nauvoo Expositor print?
Nevo wrote:THE LIES PRINTED IN THE NAUVOO EXPOSITOR ARE:
- Joseph Smith is a man of vicious principles.
- Joseph Smith "has established an inquisition," resulting in "specimens of injustice of the most pernicious and diabolical character that ever stained the pages of the historian." If left unchecked, it "will prove more formidable and terrible...than even the Spanish inquisition."
- Joseph Smith is guilty of "many of the most dark and damnable crimes that ever darkened human character."
- Joseph Smith refuses to allow criminals to be brought to justice.
- Joseph Smith's grasping for power "find[s] no parallel in history."
- Joseph Smith is "one of the blackest and basest scoundrels that has appeared upon the stage of human existence since the days of Nero, and Caligula."
- Joseph Smith is "spreading death, devastation and ruin throughout [the country] like a tornado."
Not one of these statements is true. Anyone who believe these statements are factual is an idiot.
And out to have the mobs gather at the gates for retribution. Between this paper and the warsaw signal, it would not take long for mobs to enter nauvoo and lynch Joseph and burn down Mormon homes.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith
We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith
Joseph Smith
We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith
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Re: What lies did the Nauvoo Expositor print?
Thank you!
eschew obfuscation
"I'll let you believers in on a little secret: not only is the LDS church not really true, it's obviously not true." -Sethbag
"I'll let you believers in on a little secret: not only is the LDS church not really true, it's obviously not true." -Sethbag
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Re: What lies did the Nauvoo Expositor print?
Nevo wrote:THE LIES PRINTED IN THE NAUVOO EXPOSITOR ARE:
- Joseph Smith is a man of vicious principles.
- Joseph Smith "has established an inquisition," resulting in "specimens of injustice of the most pernicious and diabolical character that ever stained the pages of the historian." If left unchecked, it "will prove more formidable and terrible...than even the Spanish inquisition."
- Joseph Smith is guilty of "many of the most dark and damnable crimes that ever darkened human character."
- Joseph Smith refuses to allow criminals to be brought to justice.
- Joseph Smith's grasping for power "find[s] no parallel in history."
- Joseph Smith is "one of the blackest and basest scoundrels that has appeared upon the stage of human existence since the days of Nero, and Caligula."
- Joseph Smith is "spreading death, devastation and ruin throughout [the country] like a tornado."
Not one of these statements is true. Anyone who believes these statements are factual is an idiot.
Hello,
I suppose stealing cattle, printing bogus money, secret polyandry, the Council of the Fifty, drunkery, and a myriad other sorts of shady dealings doesn't exactly exonerate Mr. Smith from the charges leveled at him in the Expositor. But hey, if that's the kind of turd bird you want to fly with be my guest; fall on your sword for that guy, Mr. Nevo.
V/R
Dr. Cam
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.
Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
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Re: What lies did the Nauvoo Expositor print?
Joseph Smith is a man of vicious principles.
Opinion. Fact does not come into play.
Joseph Smith "has established an inquisition," resulting in "specimens of injustice of the most pernicious and diabolical character that ever stained the pages of the historian." If left unchecked, it "will prove more formidable and terrible...than even the Spanish inquisition."
Opinion. Fact does not come into play.
Joseph Smith is guilty of "many of the most dark and damnable crimes that ever darkened human character."
Opinion. Fact does not come into play.
Joseph Smith refuses to allow criminals to be brought to justice.
This is true. Smith himself was a fugitive at the time he wrote this having done just this.
Joseph Smith's grasping for power "find[s] no parallel in history."
Opinion. Fact does not come into play.
Joseph Smith is "one of the blackest and basest scoundrels that has appeared upon the stage of human existence since the days of Nero, and Caligula."
Opinion. Fact does not come into play.
Joseph Smith is "spreading death, devastation and ruin throughout [the country] like a tornado."
Opinion. Fact does not come into play.
Nevo what statements of FACT, or allegations of FACT are untrue?
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Re: What lies did the Nauvoo Expositor print?
why me wrote:Not to mention that fact, that it was being founded by William Law not a person on the most likeable LDS list.
Yep, Joseph lost control of the Correlation Committee and kicked William Law out so he started his own.
Did I use enough context and imagination, Why Me?
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Re: What lies did the Nauvoo Expositor print?
Nevo:
I am a little confused as to why you believe that subjective claims are objectively false. Have you ever read the Catilinarian orations of Cicero? I would recommend that you familiarize yourself with the concept of invective speech, before you enter upon silly queries that really have no clean and simple answer to them.
The only one that I believe has absolutely no teeth whatsoever is the last item. And when I say no teeth, I mean that no one with even the most uncharitable reading of everything Smith did could possibly credit it. I understand that you think these things are objectively false, but they really aren't objective claims. Furthermore, it is not like Law was the only person who believed or said that some pretty awful things were happening among the Mormons, and that Joseph, if not in charge of them, might be accused of not stopping them, if they were indeed true.
No doubt, though, that Orrin Porter Rockwell was a pussycat, right? I am sure Joseph stood up to him and the Danites and was committed to bringing them to justice.
It seems to me that it is likely, and perfectly understandable, for a believer to look on the Expositor with abhorrence and object to it for the wrong reasons.
K
I am a little confused as to why you believe that subjective claims are objectively false. Have you ever read the Catilinarian orations of Cicero? I would recommend that you familiarize yourself with the concept of invective speech, before you enter upon silly queries that really have no clean and simple answer to them.
The only one that I believe has absolutely no teeth whatsoever is the last item. And when I say no teeth, I mean that no one with even the most uncharitable reading of everything Smith did could possibly credit it. I understand that you think these things are objectively false, but they really aren't objective claims. Furthermore, it is not like Law was the only person who believed or said that some pretty awful things were happening among the Mormons, and that Joseph, if not in charge of them, might be accused of not stopping them, if they were indeed true.
No doubt, though, that Orrin Porter Rockwell was a pussycat, right? I am sure Joseph stood up to him and the Danites and was committed to bringing them to justice.
It seems to me that it is likely, and perfectly understandable, for a believer to look on the Expositor with abhorrence and object to it for the wrong reasons.
K
Nevo wrote:THE LIES PRINTED IN THE NAUVOO EXPOSITOR ARE:
- Joseph Smith is a man of vicious principles.
- Joseph Smith "has established an inquisition," resulting in "specimens of injustice of the most pernicious and diabolical character that ever stained the pages of the historian." If left unchecked, it "will prove more formidable and terrible...than even the Spanish inquisition."
- Joseph Smith is guilty of "many of the most dark and damnable crimes that ever darkened human character."
- Joseph Smith refuses to allow criminals to be brought to justice.
- Joseph Smith's grasping for power "find[s] no parallel in history."
- Joseph Smith is "one of the blackest and basest scoundrels that has appeared upon the stage of human existence since the days of Nero, and Caligula."
- Joseph Smith is "spreading death, devastation and ruin throughout [the country] like a tornado."
Not one of these statements is true. Anyone who believes these statements are factual is an idiot.
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Re: What lies did the Nauvoo Expositor print?
Nevo wrote:THE LIES PRINTED IN THE NAUVOO EXPOSITOR ARE:
Okay, let's take these one by one.
Nevo wrote:
- Joseph Smith is a man of vicious principles.
The Expositor says: "[w]e are earnestly seeking to explode the vicious principles of Joseph Smith, and those who practice the same abominations and whoredoms; which we verily know are not accordant and consonant with the principles of Jesus Christ and the Apostles;"
We have to parse out the opinion from the fact. The fact portion of this statement is that Joseph practices polygamy based on certain principles. The statement I quoted doesn't explicitly refer to polygamy, but the rest of the Expositor makes it clear that this is what the authors mean when they mention "abominations and whoredoms." The characterization of Joseph's principles that led him to practice polygamy as being "vicious" is merely the authors opinion.
Fact (true) - Joseph has principles that led him to practice polygamy.
Opinion - Joseph's principles were "vicioius."
Nevo wrote:
- Joseph Smith "has established an inquisition," resulting in "specimens of injustice of the most pernicious and diabolical character that ever stained the pages of the historian." If left unchecked, it "will prove more formidable and terrible...than even the Spanish inquisition."
Again, lets separate fact from opinion. The fact is the existence of "an inquisition." The Expositor itself states that this is in reference to the manner in which William Law, Jane Law, Wilson Law, Robert Foster, and a brother Smith (who the authors of Expositor did not know) were cut off from the Church. They were cut off without having the chance to answer their accusers before the high council, which they believed was in violation of the procedures set forth in the D&C. They argued that Joseph summarily cut them off to prevent them from exposing him before the high council and the people.
Their opinion was that this was injust, pernicious, diabolical, and, if carried forward into the future, may be worse than the Spanish inquisition.
Fact (true) - The individuals mentioned were cut off in a proceeding that did not allow them to respond to their accuser.
Opinion - this was injust, pernicious, diabolical, and, if extrapolated into the future, would be worse than the Spanish inquisition.
Nevo wrote:
- Joseph Smith is guilty of "many of the most dark and damnable crimes that ever darkened human character."
Separating the fact from the opinion, the only statement of fact here is that Joseph is guilty of a crime. The crimes mentioned are those set forth in a letter to the editor of the Warsaw Signal by a J. H. Jackson. The letter can be found here. http://www.sidneyrigdon.com/dbroadhu/IL/sign1844.htm
Jackson accuses Joseph of a number of crimes in the letter including ordering Porter Rockwell to kill Governor Boggs, attempting to hire Jackson to kill Nauvoo dissenters, counterfeiting money, and so forth. In this case, it is not clear whether Joseph actually committed the crimes outlined in Jackson's letter.
Fact (falsity is TBD) - Joseph committed the crimes listed in Jackson's letter.
Opinion - that those crimes are the most dark and damnable ones that darkened human character.
Nevo wrote:
- Joseph Smith refuses to allow criminals to be brought to justice.
This is a pretty straight forward statement of fact. The Expositor, however, clarifies that this is in reference to the use of habeas corpus to protect the leading citizens of Nauvoo from prosecution.
Whether this is true or not depends on whether the persons released in this manner were in fact criminals - i.e., guilty of a crime. I haven't researched this so I don't know the answer.
Nevo wrote:
- Joseph Smith's grasping for power "find[s] no parallel in history."
Lets parse this one as well. The statement of fact is that Joseph grasped for power. The Expositor supports this statement by citing an affidavit filed before Judge King in Missouri, in which Joseph states that he has come to the point to resist all law. I think we need to keep in mind that Joseph had also been ordained "King of the World."
Fact (true) - Joseph grasped for power
Opinion - Joseph's grasp for power had no parallel in history.
Nevo wrote:
- Joseph Smith is "one of the blackest and basest scoundrels that has appeared upon the stage of human existence since the days of Nero, and Caligula."
This is entirely a statement of opinion. The facts upon which this opinion is based are set forth in the Expositor. Most, if not all, of those facts are true.
Nevo wrote:
- Joseph Smith is "spreading death, devastation and ruin throughout [the country] like a tornado."
At first glance, this appears to be a false statement. However, this passage draws from an earlier passage on page 2 of the Expositor that states "Lo! the wolf is in the fold, arrayed in sheep's clothing, and is spreading death and devastation among the saints: and we say to the watchmen standing upon the walls, cry aloud and spare not, for the day of the Lord is at hand -- a day cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate."
I think the context makes it clear that the reference to "death, devastation, and ruin" should not be taken literally. This statement is clearly referring to the wolf in sheep's clothing analogy made earlier in the paper.
Nevo wrote:Not one of these statements is true. Anyone who believes these statements are factual is an idiot.
Actually, all of the facts referenced in those statements are true, with the arguable exception of one. I don't think you have set forth a very good case that the Expositor contains "lies."
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Re: What lies did the Nauvoo Expositor print?
Fifth Columnist wrote:Actually, all of the facts referenced in those statements are true, with the arguable exception of one. I don't think you have set forth a very good case that the Expositor contains "lies."
Fact: Obama signed a law to reform the health care system.
Opinion: Obama is a socialist.
Fact: Obama attended school in Indonesia.
Opinion: Obama is a Muslim.
So when someone says Obama is a socialist and a Muslim, "the facts referenced in those statements are true." Okay. But the statements themselves are not accurate representations of those facts.
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Re: What lies did the Nauvoo Expositor print?
Nevo wrote:Fifth Columnist wrote:Actually, all of the facts referenced in those statements are true, with the arguable exception of one. I don't think you have set forth a very good case that the Expositor contains "lies."
Fact: Obama signed a law to reform the health care system.
Opinion: Obama is a socialist.
Fact: Obama attended school in Indonesia.
Opinion: Obama is a Muslim.
So when someone says Obama is a socialist and a Muslim, "the facts referenced in those statements are true." Okay. But the statements themselves are not accurate representations of those facts.
The words "Muslim" and "socialist" are far less subjective than words like "scoundrel."
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