Who is Wade Englund?

[_EAllusion]

If you were not responding to Wade then you would not have posted. What you are doing reminds of "No offense but..." Your disavowal does not magically transform your response into a non-response.

Because every post in this thread that mentions the argument must be a reply to Wade? That's ROB trophy logic going on there. My post clearly was written to those who would already agree with me that his logic is bad. The point I wanted to make to them is why someone would see it as bigoted once you accept that part of the point. (Really, what Wade was doing there was trolling. I don't know if the links to his internet discussions of "SAD" with gays are still preserved, but its pretty obvious if they are still there.) Anticipating someone like you might able come along, I went to the trouble of spelling out what I was doing.

[_Mercury]

You are delusional. Damn, that seems to be a common theme.

So if two individuals show animosity toward you then you believe them to be the same person? This is the conclusion I gather from your statement.

Please clarify this time without the crazy.

I get animosity to some degree 100% here. RDSOMProvokation I have only gotten from you and Mr. Englund, way back when. There, I finally spelled his name right. Maybe he will chime in. We'll see if maybe both your names can show up at the same time.

This is damned stupid.

[_msnobody]

Is having a lock and key fetish a sexual attraction disorder?

[_Calculus Crusader]

If you were not responding to Wade then you would not have posted. What you are doing reminds of "No offense but..." Your disavowal does not magically transform your response into a non-response.

Because every post in this thread that mentions the argument must be a reply to Wade?

Not necessarily, but your post is a response of a sort. (Not the same species as a typical response but certainly of the same genus.)

That's ROB trophy logic going on there.

Citing a college drop out, failed comedian, and failed business owner (I infer this from the total silence re: his small mortgage company) who could easily win a trophy of his own for putting away jelly dough nuts in record time strikes me as odd.

[_beastie]

Is having a lock and key fetish a sexual attraction disorder?

I dunno, but I'm pretty sure that having a fetish for starting multiple and frequent threads on homosexuality constitutes a sexual attraction disorder.

Natural admits more definitions than just "observed in nature." (I do not think anyone is arguing that homosexuality is preternatural.) Homosexuality is unnatural in that it contravenes the proper ends of our generative organs.

Most people no longer argue that it is preternatural, but it was a common argument in the past, before so much information about animal homosexuality was widespread.

There are many things that would be "unnatural" by your definition, including a married couple who continue to have sexual relations after the female has reached menopause. The male should be putting his generative organs to potentially generative use to be "natural".

[_Calculus Crusader]

Natural admits more definitions than just "observed in nature." (I do not think anyone is arguing that homosexuality is preternatural.) Homosexuality is unnatural in that it contravenes the proper ends of our generative organs.

Most people no longer argue that it is preternatural...

I don't think anyone argues that it is preternatural, given the connotation of the word. I was being facetious.

...but it was a common argument in the past, before so much information about animal homosexuality was widespread.

There are many things that would be "unnatural" by your definition, including a married couple who continue to have sexual relations after the female has reached menopause. The male should be putting his generative organs to potentially generative use to be "natural".

Junior raised the same objection. As I told him:

No it doesn't, junior. You need to learn the difference between per se and per accidens. Sex between two men or two women is essentially incongruous with the proper procreative ends of their generative organs; "old people sex" is only incidentally nonreproductive.

[_beastie]

No it doesn't, junior. You need to learn the difference between per se and per accidens. Sex between two men or two women is essentially incongruous with the proper procreative ends of their generative organs; "old people sex" is only incidentally nonreproductive.

So what? It's still nonreproductive.

I'm sure you realize that reproduction is only one of the purposes of sex.

[_moksha]

I get animosity to some degree 100% here. RDSOMProvokation I have only gotten from you and Mr. Englund, way back when. There, I finally spelled his name right. Maybe he will chime in. We'll see if maybe both your names can show up at the same time.

Hold on, just because Mercury and Wade cannot post simultaneously, does not negate having two hearts that beat as one. Just ask Hallmark Cards or even the John Hopkins Medical center.

[_Brackite]

Is Wade Still Single???

To the Single Adult Brethren of the Church

President Ezra Taft Benson

...

Remember the counsel of Elder Bruce R. McConkie that “the most important single thing that any Latter-day Saint ever does in this world is to marry the right person in the right place by the right authority” (Choose an Eternal Companion, Brigham Young University Speeches of the Year, Provo, 3 May 1966, p. 2).

Understand that temple marriage is essential to your salvation and exaltation.

...

May I now say an additional word about an eternal opportunity and responsibility to which I have referred earlier and which is of greatest importance to you. I am referring to celestial marriage.

Just a few weeks ago, I received a letter from two devoted parents, part of which reads as follows:

“Dear President Benson: We are concerned about what seems to be a growing problem—at least in this part of the Church familiar to us—that is, so many choice young men in the Church over the age of thirty who are still unmarried.

“We have sons thirty, thirty-one, and thirty-three in this situation. Many of our friends also are experiencing this same concern for unmarried sons and daughters.”

Their letter continues:

“In our experience these are usually young men who have been on missions, are well educated, and are living the commandments (except this most important one). There does not appear to be a lack of choice young ladies in the same age bracket who could make suitable companions.

“It is most frustrating to us, as their parents, who sometimes feel we have failed in our parental teachings and guiding responsibilities.”

My dear single adult brethren, we are also concerned. We want you to know that the position of the Church has never changed regarding the importance of celestial marriage. It is a commandment of God. The Lord’s declaration in Genesis is still true: “And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone” (Gen. 2:18).

To obtain a fulness of glory and exaltation in the celestial kingdom, one must enter into this holiest of ordinances.

Without marriage, the purposes of the Lord would be frustrated. Choice spirits would be withheld from the experience of mortality. And postponing marriage unduly often means limiting your posterity, and the time will come, brethren, when you will feel and know that loss.

I can assure you that the greatest responsibility and the greatest joys in life are centered in the family, honorable marriage, and rearing a righteous posterity. And the older you become, the less likely you are to marry, and then you may lose these eternal blessings altogether.

President Spencer with. Kimball recounted an experience he once had:

“Recently I met a young returned missionary who is 35 years old. He had been home from his mission for 14 years and yet he was little concerned about his bachelorhood, and laughed about it.

“I shall feel sorry for this young man when the day comes that he faces the Great Judge at the throne and when the Lord asks this boy: ‘Where is your wife?’ All of his excuses which he gave to his fellows on earth will seem very light and senseless when he answers the Judge. ‘I was very busy,’ or ‘I felt I should get my education first,’ or ‘I did not find the right girl’—such answers will be hollow and of little avail. He knew he was commanded to find a wife and marry her and make her happy. He knew it was his duty to become the father of children and provide a rich, full life for them as they grew up. He knew all this, yet postponed his responsibility” (Ensign, Feb. 1975, p. 2).

I realize that some of you brethren may have genuine fears regarding the real responsibilities that will be yours if you do marry. You are concerned about being able to support a wife and family and provide them with the necessities in these uncertain economic times. Those fears must be replaced with faith.

I assure you, brethren, that if you will be industrious, faithfully pay your tithes and offerings, and conscientiously keep the commandments, the Lord will sustain you. Yes, there will be sacrifices required, but you will grow from these and will be a better man for having met them.

...

Honorable marriage is more important than wealth, position, and status. As husband and wife, you can achieve your life’s goals together. As you sacrifice for each other and your children, the Lord will bless you, and your commitment to the Lord and your service in His kingdom will be enhanced.

Now, brethren, do not expect perfection in your choice of a mate. Do not be so particular that you overlook her most important qualities of having a strong testimony, living the principles of the gospel, loving home, wanting to be a mother in Zion, and supporting you in your priesthood responsibilities.

Of course, she should be attractive to you, but do not just date one girl after another for the sole pleasure of dating without seeking the Lord’s confirmation in your choice of your eternal companion.

( HyperLink: )

[_Buffalo]

So I take it Wade is gay, and that's the reason he's 50-something and single?