DiscussMormonism.com

PhysicsGuy wrote:Interesting. Do you think that the government should have a stance on the Christian God? If not, then you would be outside of the classification I made. I guess it could be that you merely think that the phrases like "In God We Trust" are equivalent to free pop-up advertising for religion.

That's something I'm asking myself right now. That's why I started this thread - to get the opinions of other atheists/agnostics.

I was at a school thing (for my 7 year old) a few weeks ago where we all said the pledge - and it bugged me - having to say 'one nation under god'. And it bugged me that my son has to say it all the time. And it bugged me that i have to explain myself to my 7 year old (where i come off as the bad guy).

I was at a school thing (for my 7 year old) a few weeks ago where we all said the pledge - and it bugged me - having to say 'one nation under god'. And it bugged me that my son has to say it all the time. And it bugged me that I have to explain myself to my 7 year old (where I come off as the bad guy).

Uhm.... that does make you the bad guy. If you feel bad about it, then maybe that's a sign you should change. That cold empty feeling you had when you said it was the Spirit of God leaving you as you lied to your son.

Damn it! Why didn't I think of that?!

Anyhow Gaz, back to the topic of the thread - what are your opinions on the OP?

PhysicsGuy wrote:Again, I agree that government should not have a say on the existence/non-existence of God. I guess I was just trying to see if there is a way that the government could be classified as promoting atheism by not saying anything. For me, personally, it would not be the case, but it would be for the hypothetical person who thought that the government should say something about God....

Okay then, just to be clear, when I said "idiotic" I was referring to an idea held by your hypothetical person, and not you. (I had second thoughts that I was being too harsh on a real person... glad to hear it was only a hypothetical person.)

The Evolution example was not a perfect one, but it got the point across that saying nothing can actually be saying something.

Yes, but what would it be saying? To me, and to most reasonable people (in my opinion), it would be saying the government is set up to administer laws in a democratic fashion, and has nothing whatsoever to do with metaphysical debates between religious groups. To your hypersensitive hypothetical idiot, it would say "the US government is atheistic". And what does this person think of General Mills? None of their cereal boxes say a word about deity. Hmmmm?

General Mills, yes, but what about Proctor and Gamble? :-)

Who Knows wrote:Damn it! Why didn't I think of that?!

Anyhow Gaz, back to the topic of the thread - what are your opinions on the OP?

The United States of America is the Gentile nation established on the Western Hemisphere in the last days "by the power of the Father" so that the true Church might be set up and preserved among men. The American nation as such - with all its freedoms, rights, and constitutional guarantees - came into being and continues to exist so that a proper religious climate would prevail for the restoration and spread of the gospel. (3 Nephi 21)

The Gentiles were to " be established in this land, and be set up as a free people by the power of the Father," so that the Book of Mormon might come forth to the people and the covenants made with ancient Israel be fulfilled. (# Ne. 21:4.) "And for this purpose have I established the Constitution of this land, by the hands of wise men whom I raised up unto this very purpose, and redeemed the land by the shedding of blood." (D&C 101:80; 109:54.)


I prophesy that we will eventually go to War alongside Israel as the Jews seek to rebuild the Great Temple at Jerusalem. This will include the tearing down of the Dome of the Rock, and our going to war with those that follow the teachings of the false prophet Mohammed. It is the American Christian destiny to stand alongside the Jews in the worship of the one true God.

Who Knows wrote:How do you feel about the use of 'God' in our government - specifically:

The pledge of allegiance - one nation, under god
Money - 'in god we trust'
The 10 commandments on public property
The national anthem
etc.

3 years ago, I couldn't believe there were people who tried to have 'god' removed - specifically I remember the guy who sued the gov. because his daughter was being required to say the pledge, and he objected because it mentioned god.

Now however, I can see where he's coming from. Most of the 'god stuff' in government is a relatively new phenomenon (in the last 50 years).

Anyhow, how does this affect you Atheists, Agnostics, etc.? Does it bug you? Is it something you'd like to see changed? What are you willing to do about it? Or are you not bothered at all by it?

I don't care about it. It does not bug me.

What bugs me is people trying to change the 'god stuff'. I don't know why, but it irritates me.

Who Knows wrote:How do you feel about the use of 'God' in our government - specifically:

The pledge of allegiance - one nation, under god
Money - 'in god we trust'
The 10 commandments on public property
The national anthem
etc.

3 years ago, I couldn't believe there were people who tried to have 'god' removed - specifically I remember the guy who sued the gov. because his daughter was being required to say the pledge, and he objected because it mentioned god.

Now however, I can see where he's coming from. Most of the 'god stuff' in government is a relatively new phenomenon (in the last 50 years).

Anyhow, how does this affect you Atheists, Agnostics, etc.? Does it bug you? Is it something you'd like to see changed? What are you willing to do about it? Or are you not bothered at all by it?

I consider the Pledge, Money (in God we trust), and national anthem (what's the legal term, de minimis?) trivial issues and not worthy of my (or national) time. If someone on principle objects to the pledge or national anthem for this reason, I have no problem, but as an atheist, I also have no problem reciting the pledge or singing the national anthem.

I am, however, dead set against display of 10 Commandments on public property, as I see it as explicit State endorsement of Biblical literalist Christianity. More, I hardly consider the 10 Commandments worthy of such respect. Aside from thou shalt not murder (which, I've learned, doesn't include the slaughtering of innocent non-combatants by God's chosen people), steal, commit adultery (all of which God later encourages or approves in different parts of the Old Testament) and honor one's parents, the rest of the 10 Commandments are pretty lame--much of it the ravings of a jealous, petty God who can't brook disloyalty among his "children" and who demands slavish obsequiousness.