Oaks criticizes "soccer" and team sports

[_Rollo Tomasi]

To be fair I think he was pointing to excessive sports and other activities.

I don't think it was so much about "excessive" as it was about anything that interfered with Church youth activities. In other words, Church stuff comes first. I tend to disagree -- there's a lot of non-LDS youth activities out there that are very beneficial to young people (sports included). For example, I think my kids have learned far more about leadership, social skills, and teamwork from their soccer and other sports teams than they ever have from the local LDS ward-sponsored BSA troop.

[_harmony]

To be fair I think he was pointing to excessive sports and other activities.

I don't think it was so much about "excessive" as it was about anything that interfered with Church youth activities. In other words, Church stuff comes first. I tend to disagree -- there's a lot of non-LDS youth activities out there that are very beneficial to young people (sports included). For example, I think my kids have learned far more about leadership, social skills, and teamwork from their soccer and other sports teams than they ever have from the local LDS ward-sponsored BSA troop.

I spent a few years leading a nationally recognized youth leadership training. I offered it to my ward leadership as a gesture of sharing something they normally don't have access to. They turned down the opportunity. The church isn't looking to instill leadership, social skills or teamwork into the youth. They're looking to instill obedience. Leaders sometimes tend to actually lead, and the church can't have that.

[_Black Moclips]

Over the years, I've spent uncountable hours playing video games. From the original Atari when I was a kid to the Xbox 360 and PS3. I still play regularly each week, usually World of Warcraft on the PC and even last night, I spent a couple hours playing Halo 3 with friends strewn across the country. And I guess I would count myself socially responsible and engaging, physically fit and active in hobby sports (b-ball, golf, running) and professionally successful (CFO of a real estate development company). It is all about moderation folks. I have four young boys, and guess what? They all love video games too. We have lots of fun together. Mommy is actually the best at Guitar Hero 2, which is sort of surprising. Yep, she rocks. But, do we let the kids spend all their free time on on the boxes? Nope. No playing during the school week and weekends are a reward. But they are also in scouts and play soccer and will start basketball soon. We also make them read books regularly and go to the library a lot.

It is all about balance and moderation. In fact, I bet the kid who spends 100% on church and only church activities turns out weirder than the gamer who spends all his time online. Just my opinion though.


PS - And despite the body count I've collected over the years, I've yet to be involved in a personal fight or violent crime. I keep waiting for the urge to gravity hammer my next door neighbor to overtake me, but for some reason, it hasn't come yet! I have been known to T-bag an fallen oponent though.

[_harmony]

For the record, studies show that video games may contribute to bla bla bla..."

yeah, yeah.

It's the only medium where you can fantasize that you are actually an amazing athlete while sporting what I call a "nintendo gut".

I guess some my not recognize the problem here. These kids will die fat and young, desensitized to random acts of aggression/violence, bereft of interactive social skills, unable to qualify for even military service because 300,000 cyber situps don't really count.

You would not want these Halo orphans to end up on your local police force.

Anyway, Oaks ought attend his great, great, great, great, great grandson's scouting overnighter and discover what the real problems are (Odds are that the kid is most likely home bullseyeing womp rats).

I call complete shenanigans on you.

As someone that grew up in the Nintendo Generation, I don't sport a gut and yet I spend around 4 hours a day sitting on my ass playing games. And anyone who's ever met me wouldn't say that I'm socially incapable.

It's called personal (and parental) responsibility, for Christ's sake. Moderation. Do I play a lot of games? Hell yes. I used to play at a quasi-professional level, often making around $500 per week by playing in tournaments. That means a lot of practice.

But I also have a life outside of video games. I do Belegarth, one of the most physically demanding things on this earth (other than futball).

Teach your kids how to take some f*****g responsibility for themselves. Take some f*****g responsibility yourself.

Hey, there's a simple solution. Why didn't I think of tha. . . wait a minute.

I've passed the military PT tests several times (one of which happened to be at the Halo 2 release party at the mall, at the height of my gaming where I was practicing for 7 hours a day and competing for another 4).

Just because you're too damn lazy to be a responsible person doesn't mean everyone else is.

Oh come on, Bryan. Your experience is far from the norm and no doubt has several other contributing factors of which we are not aware.

The research shows that youth who play sports tend to stay in school, tend to be healthier, tend to avoid other self-destructive decisions like drinking and early sexual activity. It shows the youth who play violent video games tend to be more socially isolated, and more callous towards violence against others especially innocent bystanders. The present generation is causing mountains of concern for their health, as more and more of them develop Type 2 Diabetes, high blood pressure, and other physical complaints based on a sedentary lifestyle!.

I agree with Rollo though. It's not necessarily just sports or video games that Oakes is warning against. It's any activity that gets in the way of church. The church is no longer #1 on the social ladder with today's youth, and since the leaders will not spend any money to keep today's youth interested, they'll apply pressure and do their darnest to take away their privileges by guilting the parents into stopping whatever activity it is that is allowing the youth to make a choice between church and the activity. The church is no longer content with Sundays. It wants every other day of the week too.

And clean up your language. Nothing anyone said should have resulted in that kind of rant.

[_Zoidberg]

Zoid,

The only Games many of the young men play now are Halo, Soldier of Fortune, Tour of Duty and the like. Their outdoor activities mainly include paintball, airsoft and laser tag.

Kids that play video golf, zelda, NFL and others generally have a life outside of violent fantasy. Having been in young mens for about 9 years it has become quite a disturbing trend. These kids fit what you're talking about.

so.. bla bla bla.

Violent stuff, no matter what the medium/expression - bad. Video games - good.

And I don't see why you object to paintball. It's good sublimation. I love it, and I'm actually a pacifist, unlike you, so I really see no reason for you to dislike it.

If there weren't any violent video games, they'd be watching violent movies. If there weren't any violent movies, they'd be dueling. Remember how public executions used to be prime entertainment? There is quite a history of violent forms of entertainment being popular. I think some people just have this void they need to fill, and if you outlaw violent games, some other outlet will be found for the aggression.

[_Dr. Shades]

There is quite a history of violent forms of entertainment being popular. I think some people just have this void they need to fill, and if you outlaw violent games, some other outlet will be found for the aggression.

I read that Kliebold and Harris had been denied their (violent) video games for a few days before Columbine.

[_harmony]

There is quite a history of violent forms of entertainment being popular. I think some people just have this void they need to fill, and if you outlaw violent games, some other outlet will be found for the aggression.

I read that Kliebold and Harris had been denied their (violent) video games for a few days before Columbine.

Perhaps if they'd been denied them for the years prior to that, the parents of the dead would not be grieving today.

[_Dr. Shades]

It was part of some study which showed that kids who are given a socially acceptable outlet for their angst and frustrations--video games, for example--don't need to seek out socially unacceptable outlets.

[_harmony]

It was part of some study which showed that kids who are given a socially acceptable outlet for their angst and frustrations--video games, for example--don't need to seek out socially unacceptable outlets.

Had someone actually addressed their angst and frustration, instead of simply giving them an outlet, think how much less trauma there would have been. But of course that would have required someone to have been paying attention to them.

but this is far from the topic, which, lest we forget, is that Elder Oakes thinks any activity that isn't church-related is worse than useless... it's spiritual suicide.

[_Inconceivable]

Violent stuff, no matter what the medium/expression - bad. Video games - good.

And I don't see why you object to paintball. It's good sublimation. I love it, and I'm actually a pacifist, unlike you, so I really see no reason for you to dislike it.

If there weren't any violent video games, they'd be watching violent movies. If there weren't any violent movies, they'd be dueling. Remember how public executions used to be prime entertainment? There is quite a history of violent forms of entertainment being popular. I think some people just have this void they need to fill, and if you outlaw violent games, some other outlet will be found for the aggression.

I got a marker (paintball gun) as well. For the past 6 years I was pretty much the only dad that played with my son's group of 8-12 buddies on a regular basis (partly because I'm in better shape than some of them). It's been an adrenalin rush and perhaps even fun, but it would be rediculous not to consider it a dark sport. I'd prefer not to play it, but they enjoy that a little more than wake/snowboarding.

No, I'm quite passive but not stupid. That is why I choose to be skilled in real world self defence as well as be familiar with the laws that govern their use.

And no, every kid is different. Some are not aggressive and need no outlet at all. I don't think outlawing violent games is a solution either but I think they need to be put into perspective.

One of my boys is obsessed with violent video games like Halo, and despite the restrictions he is consumed by the rush. I brought home Saving Private Ryan and insisted we watch it together last month (inspite of him being a TBM that doesn't watch R movies). We experienced it in a setting much like you would in the theater. It was very sobering to him and that was good.