"The Dark Road to Apostasy"

[_moksha]

I’ll try to find it. It may have been one that FAIR did, so take that for what it’s worth.

It was indeed FAIR.



http://www.fairlds.org/Misc/Education_Scholarship_and_Mormonism.html

Would this study survive the scrutiny a normal dissertation committee would apply to it?

[_Doctor Steuss]

Would this study survive the scrutiny a normal dissertation committee would apply to it?

Dunno. I've always found statistics and the equations used to formulate them to be the quintessential essence of Bertrand Russell's statement that "like Spinoza's G[-]d, it won't love us in return." Although, he found affinity because of this, I find apathy.

[_Jason Bourne]

LDS are more educated than any other religious group. And contrary to what is found in other religions, the more educated the LDSs are the higher their participation in the Church. In other religions the more educated the less active.

I am not sure this is correct though we often claim this. First, more education? That may be true in the US, but not necessarily for the rest of the world. Second, while many educated people do participate I do not think there is any empirical data to prove this.

LDS do not shun, etc. In fact, we are criticized for trying to bring the lost sheep back. They say they want to be left alone.

Yes and no. LDS do shun when an active stalwart member loses their faith and resigns. Often they lose a lot of friends and even business associates if they are in a heavy LDS community. But later, or when a person who has left is no longer well known, or moves to another ward, then yes they are sought out.

I would like to see data on this. Remember, the more educated the stronger the member in LDS circles.

The first world is now deeply immersed in an information explosion, due in large part to the exponential growth of the Internet and related information channels. The believer is now able to access information about his own or even competing faiths in mere minutes. He is also able to easily come into contact, and dialogue with adherents of other faiths, as well as former believers in his own tenets. It will be very interesting to see how traditional faith survives in this new era. [/quote]

It will be interesting. LDS have been very good at utilizing technology.[/quote]

I would like to see data on this. Many educated LDS become disaffected and it seems that most of the current converts come from less educated stock these days.

[_Ten Bear]

LDS know that the first example of apostasy was in Heaven. Satan and his angels did not rebel because of greater enlightenment. They went apostate because of pride.

Did you write this to insinuate that, although this is the reason for Satan and his angels, it also applies to apostates of today? I'll assume you did - apologies if I"m wrong.

That pushes a "hot" button for me. Simiply put, Charity, you don't know what you're talking about until you've experienced it. You have not had a strong, powerful rock-solid testimony and then found yourself in a postion to where you can not possible believe it's true anymore. Until you've gone through that, you're only guessing at what we go through and why we leave. The gamot of emotions is unreal. The heart break is nearly uncomparable. The courage to take action according to what you know in your heart is right - even knowing all the loved ones who will be hurt is unsermountable. But you wouldn't know . You can only speculate. Pride has absoulutely nothing to do with it. Nothing.

It would be just as pathetic for me (a male) to sit here and tell you what it's like to give birth to a child. Utterly, pathetic.

I understand that the world is full of pridefull people and that there are some who do leave for such reasons. But when I read that thread on MADB, I would have cried had it not been so funny. Everyone taking about something they have never experienced. I can see why KA chose to respond in the way she did.

I think you understand somewhat what I"m saying. It's like when one of those evangelical type antis (who were never members)tries to tell you that you don't "know" that it's true. That the feelings in your heart is not the spirit - just emotions. Kind of pushes a button for you, doesn't it? Well, now, you see the conundrum we have here.

[Guest]

I was called "sweety" by a TBM and it made my blood boil. I don't appreciate being called "sweety" or "sweetheart" unless it's by an elderly lady -- otherwise it infuriates me.

[_Sethbag]

With all of the above in mind, it is quite significant to note that the number of inactive members, or outright apostates, seems to be directly related to the amount of information that is available to the believer.

I would like to see data on this. Remember, the more educated the stronger the member in LDS circles.

The more educated the LDS person, the more that person can think things through and find ways of explaining or justifying their faith that satisfy them. It's a pet theory of mine that the more educated a person is, the more complex their apologetics seem to be. What a less educated believer might find to be a deal breaker in terms of their faith, a more educated person can often find a way to talk, or think, around.

But I don't think this is what Curt was talking about. I do believe that the more information a member receives about Joseph Smith's rampant adultery, con artistry, and so forth, the greater that person's likelihood of leaving the church. That doesn't mean everyone will leave it. Witness people like yourself who, knowing Joseph did all this stuff, talk yourself around the whole problem and find ways of continuing to believe. Where there's a will, there's a way. I too could have found ways of justifying or rationalizing all of this stuff and continuing in my professed belief. But I wouldn't have been able to sleep at night, at least not at first, until the glaze had settled in over my mind and hidden from my own self the intellectual dishonesty I knew it would have taken.

[_LCD2YOU]

It is not just LDS sethbag. Many "intelligent", "educated", "well reasoned" and "worldly" people of many faiths compartmentalize religion. They do not mix their rational side with their religious side. The two do not mix.

With Catholics who leave the fold and religion, most of the time it is belonging to the Church that keeps us religious. As soon as the final suspension of disbelief is dropped and the nature of god is questioned (why would a merciful god have it hat 99% of the young of all animals be nothing but lunch for other animals?), the vastness of the Universe (all of this and most of it can't be seen without a radio telescope for us, why?) examined, many quickly go agnostic. Not atheist as that funny thing called Catholic guilt still lingers.

[_cacheman]

LDS are more educated than any other religious group.

I'm also interested in seeing a reference for this statement. Maybe you meant to say that LDS are more educated than many other religious groups?

cacheman

[_Bond...James Bond]

I was called "sweety" by a TBM and it made my blood boil. Liz, I'm in the South. I don't appreciate being called "sweety" or "sweetheart" unless it's by an elderly lady -- otherwise it infuriates me.

Come on darlin'. Loosen up. ;P

[_MishMagnet]

I'm interested in knowing more about this education vs. activity level because it's the exact opposite of my own experience. In my family of 8 children 4 of us got college educations. In my extended family of 45 cousins only 15 got college educations. Of the numerous active members I know it's not common to have a college degree, especially among men. My theory was that marrying so young and having children so young caused a huge roadblock to finishing college. Money was needed more than education, the man starts working with plans of going back to school but never gets a chance.

Since this is just my experience and my theory I looked up the study referenced. There is no data on how these statistics were reached. I would imagine it would be pretty hard to get an accurate number as you'd need some type of educational data from each member and then this would have to be measured against attendance. Although attendance is measured pretty accurately from the church I'm not sure how educational level would be obtained.

The more important statistic perhaps is the education level of the apostates. Is it true that those with higher educations are more likely to leave - is there a corrolation there?