If Jesus returns, where will he stay?

[_Runtu]

There is an ordinance performed whereby the person is assured that they have proven themselves to be worthy of the Celestial Kingdom. This ordinance only occurs in the temple, and is so sacred that it is not talked about very much. After the ordinance, the person has a personal visitation from the Savior. Anyone who has been so blessed does not talk about it.

Isn't Christian doctrine and by extension LDS doctrine that no human being can prove themselves worthy of heaven/celestial kingdom? The Atonement came precisely because we can't prove ourselves worthy. Either way, I'm assuming you're referring to the so-called "second anointing" ceremony wherein a person's "calling and election is made sure." As for the personal visitation, my understanding is that someone who goes through that ordinance has the right to a personal visitation, but it is not guaranteed.

I wasn't trying to be patronizing. You didn't appear to undersetand what the Second Annointing was. So I explained it. And it is possible to talk about something in general without talking about specific individuals or experiences. It is explained in "Mormon Doctrine." I heard a speaker at a fireside speak of it, as a concept, not as his particular experience. I heard one man tell of his experience where he refused the ordinance because he wasn't sure he was ready to be that perfect.

So even if "most" of you here would know about it, what is wrong with me explaining something to those who don't know?

What I find interesting is that the second anointing used to be done quite commonly, while these days it almost never happens.

[_gramps]

Do we know how often it is occurring these days?

I've heard it is still happening on a not so unregular pace.

[_charity]

Isn't Christian doctrine and by extension LDS doctrine that no human being can prove themselves worthy of heaven/celestial kingdom? The Atonement came precisely because we can't prove ourselves worthy. Either way, I'm assuming you're referring to the so-called "second anointing" ceremony wherein a person's "calling and election is made sure." As for the personal visitation, my understanding is that someone who goes through that ordinance has the right to a personal visitation, but it is not guaranteed.

Our view, of course, is that the atonement provides for us what we can't provide for ourselves. But that we are required to do all we can. It is by grace we are saved AFTER all we can do. Proving ourselves worthy is that "all we can do."

What I find interesting is that the second anointing used to be done quite commonly, while these days it almost never happens.

I think we don't know how often it is done, becaue people don't talk about it.

[_Imwashingmypirate]

He will stay with anyone who chooses to let him in. Isn't that what he talked about? P.S. Jesus is not God!! God is way cooler than Jesus.

I was thinking if Jesus went to the America's around 40 years after his ressurection, then wouldn't that be the secon coming? Is it then ok to say the second coming has already came?

Pirate.

[_Runtu]

Our view, of course, is that the atonement provides for us what we can't provide for ourselves. But that we are required to do all we can. It is by grace we are saved AFTER all we can do. Proving ourselves worthy is that "all we can do."

That is most certainly not LDS doctrine. We are saved by grace, after all we can do. And what we can do is virtually nothing. In fact, the Book of Mormon reminds us of our "nothingness." The way you describe it, people work their butts off to prove themselves worthy, and then the Atonement makes up the difference, as if it's the cherry on top of a sundae we made with our own hands.

Imagine a situation where two people get baptized the same day. The one guy spends the rest of his life in the church, fulfilling his callings, serving in leadership positions, serving a mission, getting married in the temple, and doing everything to the best of his ability.

The other person is killed in a car accident on the way home from the baptism. No mission, no temple marriage, no callings. But that person has just as much a right to exaltation as the other guy. So it wasn't works with the Atonement making up the difference. It was the Atonement that saved them both.

This idea of working one's way to the celestial kingdom is, frankly, one of the most pernicious of all LDS folk doctrines.

I think we don't know how often it is done, becaue people don't talk about it.

I have journal entries for several of my ancestors who talk about it, but no one I know in my extended family has ever had such an experience. Maybe my family isn't as righteous as they used to be.

[_charity]

He will stay with anyone who chooses to let him in. Isn't that what he talked about? P.S. Jesus is not God!! God is way cooler than Jesus.

I was thinking if Jesus went to the America's around 40 years after his ressurection, then wouldn't that be the secon coming? Is it then ok to say the second coming has already came?

Pirate.

Jesus is God. Not God the Father. God the Son.

When we talk about The Second Coming, this is His coming glory and appearing to the whole world. So, no, it isn't correct to say that Second Coming has already happened.

[Guest]

I'm sure there are a few people out there who missed that stamp in their passport who'll be calling you for references.

There is an ordinance performed whereby the person is assured that they have proven themselves to be worthy of the Celestial Kingdom. This ordinance only occurs in the temple, and is so sacred that it is not talked about very much. After the ordinance, the person has a personal visitation from the Savior. Anyone who has been so blessed does not talk about it.

Many of us here, Charity, if not most, are well aware of what the Second Anointing is and what it entails, so patronizing us regarding it is unnecessary and inappropriate. The business about personal visitation is of your own invention, since you could not possibly know about something that people "do not talk about," unless you had experienced it personally, and then, you wouldn't be talking about it. Faith-Promoting Rumor alert.

I wasn't trying to be patronizing. You didn't appear to undersetand what the Second Annointing was. So I explained it. And it is possible to talk about something in general without talking about specific individuals or experiences. It is explained in "Mormon Doctrine." I heard a speaker at a fireside speak of it, as a concept, not as his particular experience. I heard one man tell of his experience where he refused the ordinance because he wasn't sure he was ready to be that perfect.

So even if "most" of you here would know about it, what is wrong with me explaining something to those who don't know?

I don't see how you "explained it" to anyone. Most people who are or have been LDS here know about the Second Anointing, and many if not most of them know what the ordinance entails (whether or not they have experienced it personally). I imagine even a smattering of those who are nevermos know about it, as the information is freely available.

My point has to do with your claim that each person receiving a Second Anointing (also referred to as "Calling and Election Made Sure") receives a personal visit from the Savior following. I'm calling for references on this one. Show me one official statement anywhere that this is the case. Otherwise, you're just spreading rumor not substantiated in fact.

[_the road to hana]

Do we know how often it is occurring these days?

I've heard it is still happening on a not so unregular pace.

I think it's fairly safe to assume that Mitt and Ann Romney have been through the ritual.

I'm aware that the ritual is intended to pass down to the succeeding generations of those who've had it, so the children and grandchildren of a couple who've had a Second Anointing are covered by it. I know friends whose parents have had it, and have members of my own family who've had it.

It isn't that unique a ritual, and as noted before, is completely lifted from other sources.

[_gramps]

Do we know how often it is occurring these days?

I've heard it is still happening on a not so unregular pace.

I think it's fairly safe to assume that Mitt and Ann Romney have been through the ritual.

I'm aware that the ritual is intended to pass down to the succeeding generations of those who've had it, so the children and grandchildren of a couple who've had a Second Anointing are covered by it. I know friends whose parents have had it, and have members of my own family who've had it.

It isn't that unique a ritual, and as noted before, is completely lifted from other sources.

Yes, I think it is still happening.

Some of those who receive it do talk about it. But then that can't be such a sin once you receive the endowment, can it?

My grandfather told his whole family about he and my grandmother being called in to the temple during Pres. Kimball's reign as prophet.

There was no personal visit, then or later. Charity is dreaming that one up or passing on the myth.

Nice job, you budding apologist you! :)

Charity, can you substantiate your claim?

[_charity]

I don't see how you "explained it" to anyone. Most people who are or have been LDS here know about the Second Anointing, and many if not most of them know what the ordinance entails (whether or not they have experienced it personally). I imagine even a smattering of those who are nevermos know about it, as the information is freely available.

The context is long gone. The context was questions about the Second Coming. I said that the appearances to the disciples in the Holy Land, the appearance to the Nephites and any "other sheep" there may be, the First Vision, and subsequent appearances to the Prophet Joseph, PLUS those appearances to the people who receive the Second Annointign all count as part of the "first" advent, and are not considered the Second Coming.

Then you tookoff from there.

My point has to do with your claim that each person receiving a Second Anointing (also referred to as "Calling and Election Made Sure") receives a personal visit from the Savior following. I'm calling for references on this one. Show me one official statement anywhere that this is the case. Otherwise, you're just spreading rumor not substantiated in fact.

Official statement: Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 150. AFter quoting from John 14 Joseph writes: "Now what is this other Comforter? It is no more nor less than the Lord Jesus Christ; and this is the sum and substance of the whole matter; that when any man obtains this last Comforter, he will have the personage of JesusChrist to attent him, or to appear unto him from time to time. . ."