Tithings and Blessings -- Cause Effect Relationship

[_Scottie]

I find this interesting. Aren't morals (sin) defined by God (religion) as a reward punishment system? Isn't the entire premise behind the often cited blessings that is correlated to tithing nothing more than a reward for a certain behavior??

I agree that there is a process most people go through where they learn rules of societal ethics/norms and learn that certain behavior is rewarded and other punished -- and at some point (hopefully) some go on to do ethical/moral acts because they enjoy the intrinsic reward. Yet, a system created upon the entire premise of reward (heaven) and punishment (hell) doesn't really seem to further this goal, imho.

Of course I could be wrong.

.

In LDS theology, there is no hell. Everyone (except the Sons of Perdition which is a very small group) ends up in "heaven."

This is one thing that always confused me when LDS practice Pascal's Wager. If you are NOT LDS, you won't go to hell anyways, so why not believe in one of the religions that says if you don't believe in them, you WILL go to hell? That way you at least have 2 in a million odds that you won't go to hell.

[_charity]

This is one thing that always confused me when LDS practice Pascal's Wager. If you are NOT LDS, you won't go to hell anyways, so why not believe in one of the religions that says if you don't believe in them, you WILL go to hell? That way you at least have 2 in a million odds that you won't go to hell.

This is the logic:

Now, the Catholic Church believe any baptism works. Anyone who is baptized in the name of the Father, and the Son and the Holy Ghost is baptized. Of course, they would prefer that a Catholic does the baptism. But that isn't a strict requirement. So I am okay.

The Protestants are so all over the place, there isn't any one consistent doctrine. But if I do need to be baptized, I have been. And if I don't need to be, then I am still okay.

If the Mormons are right, then I have been baptized by authority. I'm okay.

[_Scottie]

This is one thing that always confused me when LDS practice Pascal's Wager. If you are NOT LDS, you won't go to hell anyways, so why not believe in one of the religions that says if you don't believe in them, you WILL go to hell? That way you at least have 2 in a million odds that you won't go to hell.

This is the logic:

Now, the Catholic Church believe any baptism works. Anyone who is baptized in the name of the Father, and the Son and the Holy Ghost is baptized. Of course, they would prefer that a Catholic does the baptism. But that isn't a strict requirement. So I am okay.

The Protestants are so all over the place, there isn't any one consistent doctrine. But if I do need to be baptized, I have been. And if I don't need to be, then I am still okay.

If the Mormons are right, then I have been baptized by authority. I'm okay.

What about the Baptists?

[_charity]

What about the Baptists?

This came from a website on basic Baptist doctrines.

"Baptism by immersion is not unique to Southern Baptists, but it is certainly one defining distinctive. Baptists consider Christian baptism to be an ordinance for believers only, properly administered by immersion only, and as a symbolic act, not having any power in itself. The act of baptism pictures what Christ has done for us in His death, burial, and resurrection. It pictures what Christ has done in us through the new birth, enabling our death to the old life and resurrecting us to walk in newness of life. Baptism gives testimony to a salvation already received; it is not a requisite for salvation. It is an act of obedience to Jesus Christ.
[/quote]

I'm still okay.

[_truth dancer]

Are people really asked to pay back tithing??? Jeez.

Absolutely!

I know several situations where a person was told by his or her bishop that in order to attend the temple, ordain a son, or witness a sealing they must pay back tithing. In at least two cases the person was told they had to pay six months worth of back tithing.

OR... they could start paying and attend the temple/ordain the son, in six months.

~dancer~

[_the road to hana]

This is one thing that always confused me when LDS practice Pascal's Wager. If you are NOT LDS, you won't go to hell anyways, so why not believe in one of the religions that says if you don't believe in them, you WILL go to hell? That way you at least have 2 in a million odds that you won't go to hell.

This is the logic:

Now, the Catholic Church believe any baptism works. Anyone who is baptized in the name of the Father, and the Son and the Holy Ghost is baptized. Of course, they would prefer that a Catholic does the baptism. But that isn't a strict requirement. So I am okay.

I don't think that's true. Catholics don't accept LDS baptism as valid.

The Protestants are so all over the place, there isn't any one consistent doctrine. But if I do need to be baptized, I have been. And if I don't need to be, then I am still okay.

Last I checked, there were also several Protestant religions that don't accept Mormon baptism as valid. So that doesn't help you.

If the Mormons are right, then I have been baptized by authority. I'm okay.

If the Catholics don't accept your LDS baptism as valid, and many of the Protestant religions don't either, then you're only really covered if LDS baptism is valid and correct.

[_Ray A]

OR... they could start paying and attend the temple/ordain the son, in six months.

~dancer~

That's a choice some bishops may offer, TD. But no one is forced to do this. I don't think it's an unreasonable choice to give, if they had only fallen behind in tithing. Someone who has been on alcoholic binges isn't likely to get into the temple two weeks after going dry.

[_Moniker]

As a Mormon, I was scared not to pay my tithing! It wasn't a joy for me to give, it was more like paying a bill to a creditor of whom I was afraid. I no longer feel compelled to pay a ten percent tithe, but I do feel that generous giving is a virtue.
Sharing with others is a pleasure to me when I do it out of love, and not fear. And I don't expect blessings in return anymore. Giving is a blessing in itself when I enjoy it so much!

Cngratulations on acheiving a higher level of moral development. At one stage of moral development, the individual does tend to obey rules because they are afraid not to. As they progress, they are more likely to make moral choices based on other reasons. I am glad you no longer are fearful, but it isn't whether or not it is tithing. It is your own moral development.

I find this interesting. Aren't morals (sin) defined by God (religion) as a reward punishment system? Isn't the entire premise behind the often cited blessings that is correlated to tithing nothing more than a reward for a certain behavior??

I agree that there is a process most people go through where they learn rules of societal ethics/norms and learn that certain behavior is rewarded and other punished -- and at some point (hopefully) some go on to do ethical/moral acts because they enjoy the intrinsic reward. Yet, a system created upon the entire premise of reward (blessings -- celestial kingdom) and punishment (absence of blessings -- lowest kingdom) doesn't really seem to further this goal, imho.

Of course I could be wrong.

Charity, I'm reposting the above with edits to be more suitable for LDS theology.

This is a questions I posed in response to you talking about intrinsic meaning. Could you please reply as to how the rewards of "blessings" is not directly linked to tithing and is not entirely set up as extrinsic reward? I was slightly bemused that you praised (hmm??!!) KA on her moving up her moral development to learn intrinsic rewards in a thread that discusses the VERY extrinsic motivations that are placed upon charity in the LDS theology.

How does telling people they will be "blessed" for charity (tithing) further the goal of intrinsic meaning of charitable acts?

[_Inconceivable]

I always grit my teeth when someone "bears testimony" to the monetary benefits of paying tithing. Such as "I paid my tithing and the very next day, I got a pay raise.' I've paid my tithing for years when I didn't get a pay raise. But we do give God all the credit for every blessing in our lives, whether it is seen as a blessing specific to keeping a certain commandment.

For those like Ch$*#ty that have only read as deep as a few Scripture Chase verses:

10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.
11 And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the LORD of hosts.
12 And all nations shall call you blessed: for ye shall be a delightsome land, saith the LORD of hosts.

(Old Testament | Malachi 3:10 - 12)

When taken in context of the period, people traded on what they produced. Having a crop that produced to fruition meant temporal salvation - an increase in monetary wealth.

According to the scripture, it doesn't matter what your motives are.

If paying tithing to the Mormon church does not consistantly bring you wealth, perhaps you might want to look for an organization that will fullfill God's promise.

[_charity]

Now, the Catholic Church believe any baptism works. Anyone who is baptized in the name of the Father, and the Son and the Holy Ghost is baptized. Of course, they would prefer that a Catholic does the baptism. But that isn't a strict requirement. So I am okay.

I don't think that's true. Catholics don't accept LDS baptism as valid. [/quote]

But they accept others doing ordinances in extreme circumstances. If you are with a mother who has just given birth, and there is no one around, no priest, etc. and the baby is going to die almost immediatley. You, yourself, can baptize the infant so it will not go Old Testament hell. Which puts them in an ambiguous position for denying other baptisms.

The Protestants are so all over the place, there isn't any one consistent doctrine. But if I do need to be baptized, I have been. And if I don't need to be, then I am still okay.

Last I checked, there were also several Protestant religions that don't accept Mormon baptism as valid. So that doesn't help you.

I refuse to have to check with every one of the over 1700 Christians denominations for each one's rules. If they can't get it together, that's their fault.

If the Mormons are right, then I have been baptized by authority. I'm okay.

If the Catholics don't accept your LDS baptism as valid, and many of the Protestant religions don't either, then you're only really covered if LDS baptism is valid and correct.

Already covered above.