whats wrong with a little wine?

[_skippy the dead]

I have never yet met an alcoholic who didn't start with moderation. And it here that we find the nut in the nutshell. Moderation is a tough concept with alcohol.

I've also never met an alcoholic who didn't drink milk as a baby. Maybe we should outlaw breast milk or formula?

Moderation is NOT a tough concept with alcohol. The vast majority of people have no problem with moderation. I cannot understand those who assume that virtually anyone who imbibes is setting down the path towards alcoholism.

[_Imwashingmypirate]

Hello,

Basically Nothing is really wrong with a little wine, just as long as you are 21 years of age or over, and that you do Not go driving any vehicle right afterwards. If you are going to have a littler wine, it is the best time to do it right before you go to bed for some good sleeping.

The limit is 18 at the moment here, but is soon to go up to 21.

[_JAK]

Here is an interesting article about Boozy Britain:

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/world/A ... nted=print

We should be grateful for the WoW but we need to get people to listen to the wisdom.

Are you being intentionally obtuse? No one is disputing the potential harm from alcohol abuse.

What we are disputing is the argument that it follows, therefore, that alcohol consumption should be prohibited.

We are also disputing the transformation of alcohol consumption from a health issue into a moral one--indeed in Mormonism, of the highest moral significance.

For those with tendencies toward alcohol abuse, avoiding alcohol is the prudent choice. For the millions and millions of the rest of us, moderation works just fine and dandy.

My point is simple: if people would obstain, the problems as in the NYTimes would go away as they would in Russia and other parts of the world. Alcohol is destructive. I also know that moderation is fine. That is not my point. But for many moderation turns into an indulgence.

Here’s the problem, why me. You’re not merely being “simple,” you’re being simple minded on the issue.

Likely everyone would agree that any excess in eating or drinking is hazardous to health. Are there overweight Mormons? If so, chances are that they started with overeating at one time. Continuing to overeat causes people to be overweight.

Hence, your simple point applied to eating acceptable food: If one would abstain (not "obstain”), the problems…

Over eating is destructive. “Moderation” is key to what people take into their digestive system that is not unhealthy in medically acceptable quantity. Too much salt is bad. It’s hard to abstain from salt. Too much sugar is bad. It’s hard to abstain from sugar. And when one has type 2 diabetes, one must work hard to avoid sugar.

guy sajer had it right when he said: "There's absolutely nothing wrong with wine, or beer, or any other alcoholic beverage for that matter. The Mormon obsession with alcohol as a moral issue is yet another example of how it trivializes morality.”

“Wrong” is relative to time, place, situation, and in the case of what people consume to their own health.

JAK

[_karl61]

Well, we know they needed to write laws regarding alcohol and driving but now someone is writing bills regarding the eating and the obese:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/ye ... 1fat1.html

[_JAK]

Well, we know they needed to write laws regarding alcohol and driving but now someone is writing bills regarding the eating and the obese:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/ye ... 1fat1.html

That would be a tricky law to prohibit serving the obese.

Definitions!?

It’s an impractical idea codify. Imagine, instead of a greeter at the door we have a scales. One must stand on the scales, be measured for height, and a chart must be consulted to see if the restaurant can seat the person.

Of course we could have a “seating test.” If the person can’t get into the booth on one side, he/she can’t be served.

Restaurants don’t care if you’re fat. They’re more interested in your fat wallet. If you can get through the door, the restaurant will put more food in your gut.

I think rather than attempting to legislate, we have to go for education regarding healthy eating habits. That education has to begin very early in life and schools.

Physical education was removed from some schools so they could save money. They also added Coke machines and candy machines at the same time to make money.

No child left behind left many a child with a large behind as well as other parts as your picture demonstrates.

Now some schools are putting physical activity (if not education) back.

JAK

[_karl61]

it's really sad regarding the food thing: fat and white sugar is so addicting - it's really getting bad. I see parents bringing their twelve year olds now to the gym and getting them a trainer because of how much obese they are getting. This country - mexico too have a lot of over weight people who live in sweats, t-shirts and just keep eating. It's interesting that you don't see a lot of over weight people in certain countries but others you do -

[_karl61]

I've never yet met a sex addict who didn't start with moderation.

This is one of the stupidest arguments possible. To wit: people may abuse something, so it is necessary to forbid it.

Sex addiction is a psychological symptom. However, I can say that I have never met a porn addict who didn't start by watching just one porn film. Sex addiction however is very complicated and multi-faceted.

Why me: sex is an instinct. Today we live in a society that teases that instinct - it's legal to do that. I have lived most of my life with this problem. Only recently have I learned that it can be part of the manic phase in someone with Bi-polar disorder. It's a sympton of something very serious. Most LDS would think that this is the sickeness but it's a sympton of something a lot more serious - of course with the Church sex outside of marriage is worse than anything except murder but to most mental health people this is putting the cart before the horse. I have taken medication that helps people focus but it's so strong it is also prescribed for schizophrenia and bi-polar disorder. It's interesting that since I have taken this over time that the "sexual addiction" seems to be melting away.

I became addicted because I saw playboys as a child inside my home. Although there was a pyschological part there is also a huge chemical change that occurs when a young boy/man see's a naked woman - is has to do with evolution and what thousands of ancestors have done when they have seen the same thing. But today the media can easily create and mirage which is nothing more than at trick on millions of years of evolutionary instinct. It's something that I learn more about each day. I always have known that I have had huge mood swings - only recently did I discover that hypersexuality is common among males in the manic phase of bi-polar disorder.

[_JAK]

it's really sad regarding the food thing: fat and white sugar is so addicting - it's really getting bad. I see parents bringing their twelve year olds now to the gym and getting them a trainer because of how much obese they are getting. This country - mexico too have a lot of over weight people who live in sweats, t-shirts and just keep eating. It's interesting that you don't see a lot of over weight people in certain countries but others you do -

People with largely seafood diet or vegetarian diet tend to have lower body-fat weight than people in the USA. But, we have to keep in mind the advertising and the push for fatty foods in the USA. They are easy and available. In addition, restaurants tend to produce huge portions of food.

Some people (with some justification) think they should not let food “go to waste.” However, the encouragement to over-eat is quite dominate in many eating places in the USA.

Hence, they encourage people to over-eat.

Now we have computers, HDTV (the Super Bowl), video games, and we tend to be discouraged from physical activity. My Lexus LS 460 discourages physical activity. The touch of a button and my trunk opens. Windows are all powered, controls for the radio, CD player, etc. are all at the touch even on the steering wheel. 3 position seat memories make even moving the seat a finger button touch. To open all windows if the car is warm from the sun: a single touch opens all door windows and the sun-roof at one time. Meanwhile, I can start the car from a distance by remote control to heat or cool it before I get into it.

All those features tend to discourage physical activity. Do I need further enumeration of other things which discourage active living? You can supply, I am sure.

JAK

[_Imwashingmypirate]

OHHH JAK you said "super bowl"!!!

[_The Nehor]

Should God, in his infinite wisdom, prohibit Big Macs too?

I think he was hoping we'd be smart enough to make that choice on our own.