Why "cowardly anonymity" may indeed be best

[_charity]

I've been reading the MAD thread and just got to the part where Will mentions this thread. So now that I know Will is reading, here's what I think of him.

He is a malicious creep who could do permanent damage to families who are barely keeping it together as it is. He seems to take delight in imaging the impact this could have on the "wolf" and doesn't seem to give a darn about the wolf's family.

by the way, charity, going by the number of exmormons I've known over the years who have had to continue going to church to keep their marriage together, I would say one heck of a lot of LDS need counseling.

Part of the irony behind this is that one reason closet nonbelievers feel the need to vent on the internet is due to the fact that they're not "allowed" to be who they truly are in real life, due to the demands of the TBM spouse.

I am not going to malign anybody on a message board. I have never called any ex-Mormon, non-mormon, or anti-Mormon a malicious creep. Or anything else.

I would think there are probably a lot of people in need of counseling.

About a believing spouse demanding that a non-believing spouse be who they truly are in real life, that is wrong. Just as wrong as a non-believing spouse making demands on a believing spouse to weaken or destroy the spouse's faith. Truth is always best. Hiding and pretending is not a good thing.

[_Jersey Girl]

Do TBM's ever get the feeling that they're surrounded by potential stalkers in their church?

[_Scottie]

Did Will actually say this:

"Dude, you're going to lose your family and end up divorced and in hell. Isn't that freaking hilarious?"

The mods finally closed the thread. How in the world did it last as long as it did, when someone was being threatened with "real life" interference? Isn't that a violation of most board regulations?

oh wait, I remember. John is not TBM, that's how it lasted as long as it did.

Well, John started the thread. You can't blame the mods of favoritism there...

I thought it would be deleted in 30 seconds! I was shocked it was allowed to continue.

[_charity]

Did Will actually say this:

"Dude, you're going to lose your family and end up divorced and in hell. Isn't that freaking hilarious?"

The mods finally closed the thread. How in the world did it last as long as it did, when someone was being threatened with "real life" interference? Isn't that a violation of most board regulations?

oh wait, I remember. John is not TBM, that's how it lasted as long as it did.

Well, John started the thread. You can't blame the mods of favoritism there...

I thought it would be deleted in 30 seconds! I was shocked it was allowed to continue.

I guess they just can't win. If they shut it down, they censor and no one has free speech. If they don't then there are complaints, too.

[_beastie]

Well, John started the thread. You can't blame the mods of favoritism there...

I thought it would be deleted in 30 seconds! I was shocked it was allowed to continue.

Good point. I overlooked that John started it.

[_Who Knows]

Will's just upset that people are leaving the church, and there's not a damned thing he can do about it. Not even his silly apologetics are helping. Don't worry Will, after we all die, you and your gazillion wives can laugh at all us exmos when we're down chillin in the tel. kingdom.

[_skippy the dead]

About a believing spouse demanding that a non-believing spouse be who they truly are in real life, that is wrong. Just as wrong as a non-believing spouse making demands on a believing spouse to weaken or destroy the spouse's faith. Truth is always best. Hiding and pretending is not a good thing.

I agree, but unfortunately it happens quite often (there are those on this board who can tell the tale). Saying it's wrong won't fix the problem - this is real-life, not a best-case scenario. If a believing spouse is, in fact, making such demands, wouldn't it be in the best interests of family unity for the non-believing spouse to attend church and go through the motions required by that spouse? And if so, doesn't that make Will's proposal even more malicious, when the result could be destroying a marital bond by forcing the issue where it is unwelcome?

[_Ren]

About a believing spouse demanding that a non-believing spouse be who they truly are in real life, that is wrong. Just as wrong as a non-believing spouse making demands on a believing spouse to weaken or destroy the spouse's faith. Truth is always best. Hiding and pretending is not a good thing.

I agree, but unfortunately it happens quite often (there are those on this board who can tell the tale). Saying it's wrong won't fix the problem - this is real-life, not a best-case scenario. If a believing spouse is, in fact, making such demands, wouldn't it be in the best interests of family unity for the non-believing spouse to attend church and go through the motions required by that spouse? And if so, doesn't that make Will's proposal even more malicious, when the result could be destroying a marital bond by forcing the issue where it is unwelcome?

Yeah - this is the reality of the situation for many people.
I often consider what I would have done if I had lost belief whilst being involved in a temple marriage, and knowing that 'coming out' properly would almost certainly cause major upset between my spouse and the rest of my family...

...would I 'lie' to keep the peace? I've gotta say - it'd definitely be on the cards for me. I think the concerns of some fellow church-goers who can't stand the thought of 'doubters' in their midst would mean NOTHING compared to the well-being of my family. Not a damn thing.

And when it comes to 'lying to the Lord' in something like a bishop's interview - well. As far as I understand it, the Lord already knows your heart, and why you 'really' do the things you do. The Lord would know your true motivations already, and whether your heart was in the right place...

[_charity]

About a believing spouse demanding that a non-believing spouse be who they truly are in real life, that is wrong. Just as wrong as a non-believing spouse making demands on a believing spouse to weaken or destroy the spouse's faith. Truth is always best. Hiding and pretending is not a good thing.

I agree, but unfortunately it happens quite often (there are those on this board who can tell the tale). Saying it's wrong won't fix the problem - this is real-life, not a best-case scenario. If a believing spouse is, in fact, making such demands, wouldn't it be in the best interests of family unity for the non-believing spouse to attend church and go through the motions required by that spouse? And if so, doesn't that make Will's proposal even more malicious, when the result could be destroying a marital bond by forcing the issue where it is unwelcome?

I don't think a marital bond can be sustained on disrespect, force, deceit, etc. The one who is being forced into the position of being dishonest can't survive long in that situaiton.

Ideal relationship, and probably not very workable in the real world, as you said. But that is really sad.

[_beastie]

I am not going to malign anybody on a message board. I have never called any ex-Mormon, non-mormon, or anti-Mormon a malicious creep. Or anything else.

Oh, that's right, I forgot, in your world, telling someone you need to "dumb down your posts" for them and use words of "shorter syllables" is NOT the same as calling them dumb. :O

I would think there are probably a lot of people in need of counseling.

About a believing spouse demanding that a non-believing spouse be who they truly are in real life, that is wrong. Just as wrong as a non-believing spouse making demands on a believing spouse to weaken or destroy the spouse's faith. Truth is always best. Hiding and pretending is not a good thing.

No, hiding and pretending is not a good thing, and knowing that your spouse does not value YOU enough to allow YOU to be true to your own beliefs is a terrible burden, I'm sure. In fact, such a terrible burden that it may create a great deal of frustration... frustration that may feel more safely vented onto the belief system that created such a situation rather than the spouse him/herself.

That's what's so ironic about Will's post. He thinks people like John are avowed enemies of the church, attending in order to take the church down. He thinks this because of the critical things they post on internet boards - that, by the way, were designed to allow such interaction between critic and believer. Yet he is so clueless that he doesn't realize the situation they've been placed in by their believing spouses is part of the reason they need to discuss these issues in the first place.

As others have stated, this is a common situation. It's common because LDS leaders have consistently taught malicious things about people who lose faith. We're lazy, we're sinning or want to sin, we never really believed, we're proud, we're listening to satan, yadayadayada... of course believers are frightened and threatened by the prospect of their own SPOUSE becoming such a being, and engage in whatever manipulation they can to stop that from happening...even if it means forcing the spouse to pretend.