What is Mormonism's Ultimate Punishment?

[_The Nehor]

Nehor

Those Apostates who KNOW the gospel is true and still defy it get that punishment. The rest do not.

In which life time?

All of them.

At what point then, is one cast into Outer Darkness or Hell?

When they die if they made it to mortality though they do get out for a bit for the final judgment, then back they go if needed. During the Millenium and after the Final Battle if they didn't.

[_Jersey Girl]

Nehor

Those Apostates who KNOW the gospel is true and still defy it get that punishment. The rest do not.

In which life time?

All of them.

At what point then, is one cast into Outer Darkness or Hell?

When they die if they made it to mortality though they do get out for a bit for the final judgment, then back they go if needed. During the Millenium and after the Final Battle if they didn't.

Huh? I honestly don't know what you're saying.

Let me try to feed back to you what I think you're saying.

Apostates who know the gospel is true and still defy it go to Outer Darkness when they die and get out of Outer Darkness for a bit for the final judgement?

Is that what you're saying? What about vicarious baptism? What about the second chance? Where is the second chance to accept the gospel? At what point is the second chance withdrawn?

[_Jersey Girl]

OK....so when the prophet of the church doesn't even know, and everyone who feels the "Holy Ghost" has different reactions to what is read or how they feel....what's true? I don't understand why mediocracy is considered acceptable.

Who's having all these "different reactions"? What do you mean by "different reactions" The Holy Ghost unifies a people who are tuned and calibrated to receive his teachings and influence. He teaches the same thing to all, in the sense of general principles, in the context of the Restored Gospel.

Dissension and confusion, as our scriptures make clear, is of Satan, not of God.

If "the Holy Ghost unifies people who are tuned in and calibrated to receive his teachings and influence" why are the answers in the poll different?

[Guest]

You, Nehor, are missing the point. The original topic was asking what everyone thinks or believes. Everyone has not gotten "dumber" as you oh so eloquently accused, but we have ALL been taught different things over our lives on this matter. Your opinion is something different than what my father read to me in a book written by...oh, who was it...I THINK it was David O. McKay. Anyway, that wasn't the point. There is NO official statement on who goes to hell or not, and what happens to apostates. I've heard numerous opinions, but no clarification on the doctrine.

So you're confused because someone read to you something in a book that you can't remember the name of that was possibly written by a President of the Church but you're not sure? See, this is the kind of uncertainty that research can get rid of.

There ARE several official statements on who goes to hell or not. We call them ''the Scriptures". We read them and they tell us stuff. If you're interested in some doctrinal point, you research it in the Scriptures and you get the answers. It's a fascinating process. Works in other fields too with their books.

The other option of course is to stay ignorant and then whine about how you don't know anything about it. Scratch, for someone who claims to be a member of the Church and know something about it you know almost nothing of it's scriptural canon if you didn't jump to several sections of the D&C when you first wanted to know. Either that or you do know and are trying to confuse the issue. Heck, for all I know you could be eligible for Outer Darkness. So Scratch, do you know it's true and hate it anyways?

See, this is why Mormons are given a bad name: for people like you and your way of responding and treating others.

No, I don't remember if it was David O. McKay. I'm pretty positive it was him, and KNOW for a fact it was a former "prophet" due to the fact that those are the only books my father would read from, other than the scriptures. Soooo sorry for not remembering for sure, but that is not the point. I was not even using that as research, but just as a reference of something I experienced in my past.

I've read the scriptures, I've read and taught from the manuals given to us, I've been taught to, I've had the discussions, I've gone through seminary and beyond. I've heard multiple versions of what happens to apostates, and multiple versions of many things. The scriptures mean yada to some people, and yada yada to others. The scriptures may be the ultimate wisdom according to the church, but when it's deciphered in different ways that's where this issue comes up.

That is my point.

[_Tarski]

OK....so when the prophet of the church doesn't even know, and everyone who feels the "Holy Ghost" has different reactions to what is read or how they feel....what's true? I don't understand why mediocracy is considered acceptable.

Who's having all these "different reactions"? What do you mean by "different reactions" The Holy Ghost unifies a people who are tuned and calibrated to receive his teachings and influence. He teaches the same thing to all, in the sense of general principles, in the context of the Restored Gospel.

Dissension and confusion, as our scriptures make clear, is of Satan, not of God.

LOL,

You just define the problem away. All who agree with your version are unified. The rest are of Satan.
(I smell a tautology).

The fact is that feeling the spirit or getting a message or confirmation from God or whatever is terrible evidence of anything. One only need to check the rather long and bizarre list of beliefs that are arrived at by private revelation and feelings of spiritual certainty.
I have lots of examples of people telling me that they got information from the Holy Ghost which was proven false later (in one case, only an hour later).

[_unwell3398]

OK....so when the prophet of the church doesn't even know, and everyone who feels the "Holy Ghost" has different reactions to what is read or how they feel....what's true? I don't understand why mediocracy is considered acceptable.

Who's having all these "different reactions"? What do you mean by "different reactions" The Holy Ghost unifies a people who are tuned and calibrated to receive his teachings and influence. He teaches the same thing to all, in the sense of general principles, in the context of the Restored Gospel.

Dissension and confusion, as our scriptures make clear, is of Satan, not of God.

LOL,

You just define the problem away. All who agree with your version are unified. The rest are of Satan.
(I smell a tautology).

The fact is that feeling the spirit or getting a message or confirmation from God or whatever is terrible evidence of anything. One only need to check the rather long and bizarre list of beliefs that are arrived at by private revelation and feelings of spiritual certainty.
I have lots of examples of people telling me that they got information from the Holy Ghost which was proven false later (in one case, only an hour later).

Ha! Very true. Need we bring up the Salamander issue again? My father, the second it was announced, was like, "Um, this does not feel right at all," yet the leaders of the church "felt the holy spirit bear witness unto us as we read those documents." Hmm.

Personally, I believe "the spirit" is felt by all those, Mormon or any faithful follower of a religion, who are reading what is pleasing or faith promoting to them.

[_Gadianton]

I thought you were a Mormon Scratch? In that case, I would expect you to know the answer to this question, as its rudimentary doctrine for which there is no ambiguity or imprecision in our scriptures or the writings of the General Authorities.

Or is my first assumption mistaken?

Actually, the scriptures are all over the place and you'd never be able to derive the Mormon position of hell based on them, the scriptures, like usual, are garbage.

But, having said that, all Chapel Mormons at least know the Mormon doctrine of hell which is basically, no, general apostates don't qualify since they've never received the 2nd comforter. The worst it can be is the telestial kingdom, after repenting and being submitted up to the "buffetings of Satan" for a long period of time, metaphorically 1000 years. Which can be calculated (at least metaphorically) by comparing the times between the Morning of the First resurrection and the second resurrection.

But since there are probably no Chapel Mormons here who ever understood LDS doctrine, just Internet Mormons who have no interest in church teachings but rather only are interested in the next lame attempt to prove that something in science supports a particular interpretation probably very few agree on of a fragment of something some GA said or some fictional character in their "scriptures" said.

[_antishock8]

Well. For the answer I went straight to canon: Heaven and Hell by Emanuel Swedenborg

Eternal lustings (with no happy ending) and griping is what awaits the lover of Mammon.

[_The Nehor]

Nehor

Those Apostates who KNOW the gospel is true and still defy it get that punishment. The rest do not.

In which life time?

All of them.

At what point then, is one cast into Outer Darkness or Hell?

When they die if they made it to mortality though they do get out for a bit for the final judgment, then back they go if needed. During the Millenium and after the Final Battle if they didn't.

Huh? I honestly don't know what you're saying.

Let me try to feed back to you what I think you're saying.

Apostates who know the gospel is true and still defy it go to Outer Darkness when they die and get out of Outer Darkness for a bit for the final judgement?

Is that what you're saying? What about vicarious baptism? What about the second chance? Where is the second chance to accept the gospel? At what point is the second chance withdrawn?

If they already know the gospel is true and understand it and reject it anyways there is no second chance. As death and standing in the presence of God brings no new knowledge to them, it doesn't help.

[_The Nehor]

See, this is why Mormons are given a bad name: for people like you and your way of responding and treating others.

I'm emulating my Savior: "A generation of vipers shall not escape the damnation of hell."

Bye now.