Sidney and Joseph wrote the manuscript with their work based on Spaulding's ripped off work as well as their own ideas and rip offs from the Bible.
To keep up the translation charade with his scribes, Emma, and others, Joe would put the scraps of the manuscript deep into his hat and read them from there. If the scribe or Emma looked over he would pull the hat close to block their view of the contents of the hat.
Emma reported times when Joe would pick right up where he had left off the night before... easy when you mark your spot on the in-the-hat manuscript.
Additionally, LDS Inc loves to relate the story that the majority of the Book of Mormon "translation" occurred in less then 90 days.. that is very telling as it is about the same amount of time it would take to dictate and have a scribe right it all down for that size of a book.
This explanation makes the most sense to me.
"Brigham said the day would come when thousands would be made Eunuchs in order for them to be saved in the kingdom of God." (Wilford Woodruff's Diary, June 2, 1857, Vol. 5, pages 54-55)
truth dancer wrote: You don't see the problem with this? Not even a little?
~dancer~
My experience with Mormons and this type of issue is exactly how MG approaches this here; it's only a problem IF it's not in Mormonism -- ie, the thought process is "since I've received the 'witness' that the church is true, then all methods used by God through his leaders are okay -- in Mormonism only, even if bizarre to everybody else. The same processes ARE bizarre in every other religion...because they aren't true!
Quite simple, really.
I don't think that it is "quite simple, really."
See my post just after yours as I am responding to TD.
I think things are much more complex than some make them out to be. The complexity provides the challenge and the challenge provides the opposition that is necessary to experience growth. It is sad to observe those that give up because they believe that they've found the truth in regards to Mormonism and that it is all "quite simple, really."
Months back I started a discussion dealing with "thinking out of the box". The first step in thinking outside of the box is to realize that it is necessary to move away from the "quite simple" mentality.
Chap wrote:I think mentalgymnast is derailing here...MG suggests we need to consider a fourth possibility - God was really channelling scripture to Joseph Smith through the rock.
At this point it may be worth asking...on the assumption that God was "channelling scripture to Joseph Smith"... what would have been a more appropriate or "best practices" way of carrying out the translation process? Apparently Joseph Smith didn't need to have the plates nearby, so it seems he would have had to use some sort of device or tool, unless we are to assume he's just going to sit and roll off the Book of Mormon while kicking back in his Lazy Boy. So...what other medium of translation could have been used that would meet the qualifier of being appropriate?
by the way, I don't see my initial post on this thread as being a derail. I think that we need to consider another alternative besides the three that were originally listed. Why not use the one that is attested to by witnesses?
Chap wrote:I think mentalgymnast is derailing here...MG suggests we need to consider a fourth possibility - God was really channelling scripture to Joseph Smith through the rock.
At this point it may be worth asking...on the assumption that God was "channelling scripture to Joseph Smith"... what would have been a more appropriate or "best practices" way of carrying out the translation process? Apparently Joseph Smith didn't need to have the plates nearby, so it seems he would have had to use some sort of device or tool, unless we are to assume he's just going to sit and roll off the Book of Mormon while kicking back in his Lazy Boy. So...what other medium of translation could have been used that would meet the qualifier of being appropriate?
by the way, I don't see my initial post on this thread as being a derail. I think that we need to consider another alternative besides the three that were originally listed. Why not use the one that is attested to by witnesses?
Regards, MG
Arguing at length about whether one is derailing or not is perhaps in itself a form of derailing.
However, it was not your introduction of a fourth possibility that in my view constituted derailing, but rather your diversion of the discussion onto the 'milk befoe meat' question, in particular relating to whether the 'magic rocks' procedure should be mentioned to investigators.
If that was not clear from my post (I think it was), I am sorry for misleading you.
truth dancer wrote: You don't see the problem with this? Not even a little?
~dancer~
My experience with Mormons and this type of issue is exactly how MG approaches this here; it's only a problem IF it's not in Mormonism -- ie, the thought process is "since I've received the 'witness' that the church is true, then all methods used by God through his leaders are okay -- in Mormonism only, even if bizarre to everybody else. The same processes ARE bizarre in every other religion...because they aren't true!
Quite simple, really.
I don't think that it is "quite simple, really."
See my post just after yours as I am responding to TD.
I think things are much more complex than some make them out to be. The complexity provides the challenge and the challenge provides the opposition that is necessary to experience growth. It is sad to observe those that give up because they believe that they've found the truth in regards to Mormonism and that it is all "quite simple, really."
Months back I started a discussion dealing with "thinking out of the box". The first step in thinking outside of the box is to realize that it is necessary to move away from the "quite simple" mentality.
Regards, MG
Actually, I think Mormons must make things complicated, so nobody can see the reality. In my life, this paradigm started with Nibley. Nobody could really understand what he was saying -- so it "must be true." His followers mimicked his approach. And with so much evidence against Mormon claims today, it is the only way to mentally survive today...but when you really get outside the Mormon box, it is after all...
quite simple.
Überzeugungen sind oft die gefährlichsten Feinde der Wahrheit.
[Certainty (that one is correct) is often the most dangerous enemy of the
truth.] - Friedrich Nietzsche