who needs to know?

[_Boaz & Lidia]

Thanks to all who have replied.

I am almost despairing of her ever finding a mate within the church. I'm not sure such a man exists.

Well then, there you have it.

And who is to blame for her feeling like she must find a mate in the Mormon church?

[_Yoda]

Thanks to all who have replied.

I am almost despairing of her ever finding a mate within the church. I'm not sure such a man exists.

I think that the important thing is for her to find someone she can be happy with, and who will accept her for who she is, and be happy with her. That's really what I hope for my kids.

If they're Church members, great. If not, that's OK, too, as long as they share core values and respect each other.

I agree with Shades' points made earlier. I think that men, even good men, are sometimes at a loss when they come across this type of situation because they want to "fix things", and if your daughter is suffering from some of the types of things which are typical in this type of situation, like PTSD, there is not an easy fix.

Still, I don't think that she really needs to go into detail about a lot of this until a fairly serious relationship has developed.

In my case, I was sexually abused as a teen-ager, and had blocked the incident. Flashbacks occurred shortly after I delivered my oldest daughter. My husband was very loving and patient with me, and we went through counseling together. I later found out that he had also been sexually abused as a child.

These are situations that can be worked through, but, like others have said here, I think it's important that she select a partner who is worthy of HER. She needs to have someone in her life who can really support her through some this.

[_Sam Harris]

Something has just come to my attention. You all know I have a daughter who was abused as a young child and nearly raped as a young teenager. I readily acknowledge that I knew nothing of the abuse (had I known, the people involved would still bear the scars) and I handled the near rape badly. The list of what I should have done is long and detailed, whereas what I did do damaged someone I love a great deal. (I followed my bishop's advice, which was to do nothing. That is the one regret I have, and I have to live with it, but that's not what this thread is about).

This daughter is beautiful, sociable, innocent, and unmarried, even though she is 30 and has a host of friends. I had assumed until last week that she was single because that was her choice. Instead, I found out that she is single because when she would get close enough to an LDS guy to actually talk about such things, she would tell him of the abuse and the near rape... and he would make a quick exit, because she was damaged goods and no LDS man wants damaged goods to take to wife.

When I was young, I was also abused in much the same manner, although mine went on for years, far into my teenage years. I chose to never tell my husband about it. Perhaps I should have, and perhaps it would have made no difference to him, but still, it was a choice I made.

I'm sure you can imagine the anger I feel. She is not damaged goods. She is a virgin and innocent.

My question is... how much should she disclose? And when? I disclosed nothing to her father until she revealed the abuse to her father and I. And while the abuse I suffered still effects a few of my actions (I prefer to shower and dress in the dark with the lights off or only when I am completely alone in the house), I have gotten over a few of my responses (I no longer sleep wrapped up in the blankets like a burrito, although I still cannot sleep if I am being touched). No doubt the abuse she suffered will follow her also, but should the man who loves her enough to accept her no matter what know why she does some of the things she does?

My other question is... how deeply ingrained is this abhorrance of abuse victims in LDS men? Or men in general?

Harmony,

Firstly I am deeply sorry for what both you and your daughter have had to suffer. I'm angry that these men she's seeing are not mature enough to realize that your daughter was a victim, whether or not she was a virgin is not the point. She was abused, and should be treated with the utmost respect, courtesy, and gentleness.

Has she told you exactly how long she waits until letting these men know? I seriously think it's both an issue of maturity on the part of these men, and also an indoctrination issue with the church, when it insists that women should die rather than lose their virtue.

The question of when to disclose is a difficult one. Becuse what if she waits until the engagement and reveals her secret, thinking she has someone she can trust, only to be abandoned? What if she waits until the marriage, thinking the same thing, only to find someone who will think less of her? I can only hope and pray your daughter will find a king worthy of her...not these sleazes that would treat her in such a manner.

[_harmony]

And who is to blame for her feeling like she must find a mate in the Mormon church?

Not me. Two of her brothers married non-members, with my blessing. She knows the LDS mentality towards dating doesn't exist here. The few dates she went on in high school were almost all with non-members, and each of her siblings dated nonmembers at one time or another.

She looks within the church because the church has a system set up that puts singles together, a system she hasn't found anywhere else. There are singles in her branch that are almost 40, and there are 3 singles branches in this metro area, so it's not like her finding pool is a dry lake. We also have the problem here that we've got a lot of 30 something men who still live at home with the parents while they work in our industries, usually as engineers. They make good money, they just don't want to have any responsibility. It's a nationwide phenomena that I've read about, so it's not just a localized thing.

My biggest problem isn't that she's not married. My problem is that she's seen as damaged goods. I've used the "well, you wouldn't want him for a husband anyway" thing, but good grief... how many times must I say that?

Perhaps, as Shades says, there really are no men brave enough (although to be quite truthful, I think everyone carries baggage of some sort into every relationship) to love her. Her father must have been such a dumb schmuck, to take me on... and here I thought all these years people just felt sorry for him because I was a convert. How sad that it's getting very difficult to find men who actually believe their own religion.

[_Sam Harris]

Harmony, there is a man brave enough to love her out there. And you are right, everyone carries some sort of baggage into relationships. Me and mine are working on ours, day by day.

The LDS church isn't the only church institution that has singles "ministries" if she is looking for that type of environment, she can find it elsewhere. There is a kind, strong, caring man out there for her. I appreciate the testimony of Joyce Meyer, and all she went through. Her husband had to be very strong within himself to be able to nurture her and help her on the path to healing. Your daughter deserves no less.

My stepdad was "grooming" me for molestation about five years ago, and probably would have succeeded in the act, had his drinking not gotten him into trouble elsewhere. I've since forgiven him and we have a friendship, but I remember the shame that I associated with my lack of virginity in the LDS church, feeling like "damaged goods". Then one day I woke up and realized that many of these women probably had a broke hymen too, and I bet you not all of them were raped. I decided to stop beating myself up about it.

I hope that your daughter broadens her search, so she can find a real man to appreciate her. She deserves no less.

[_The Nehor]

I'm going to perhaps be a sleazeball here.

After dating two victims of abuse and/or rape, I plan to avoid relationships like that in the future. Part of it was lingering issues they had that made them unable to really open up and the odd habits they had picked up. Another part of it is that I couldn't cope with it. I wanted to fix it, to make it better, to help her. I couldn't do anything. It drove me nuts. Maybe that is a flaw in me. That's great but I don't know how to repair it and I don't plan to stake my future or anyone else's on the hope that one day down the road I will get over it.

It has nothing to do with seeing victims as damaged goods. I've just learned a little something about my limits. I should also note that I have two agnostic friends who won't date anyone who has been abused either. I don't think it has to do with the LDS Church. It's guys in general. In case you haven't picked up on this, we don't like lots of painful baggage in the past. I blame the Y chromosome.

It's not fair to your daughter. It's not fair to you either. That doesn't change reality though. No one picks a romantic partner because the other person deserves someone (if they do I think they're mad). You do it because you like and love each other and you think you can make a happy life together.

"The world is a bunch of people running around screaming and flailing their arms. The idea is to find someone running in the same direction who is unlikely to smack you in the face too often."

[_Sam Harris]

If guys don't like painful baggage, then they shouldn't create it.

Edited to add: I know that not ALL guys would refuse to date a woman who has been abused, but not all women are abused by women!

[Guest]

If guys don't like painful baggage, then they shouldn't create it.

Edited to add: I know that not ALL guys would refuse to date a woman who has been abused, but not all women are abused by women!

AMEN!

I've seen a few men on this thread think they couldn't handle being with a woman abused (of course what is that? There's a wide spectrum) and I wonder if they're aware of the stats that MANY, MANY, MANY women have dealt with some sort of sexual abuse (from molestation to rape). Last stats I saw said 1 out of 4 females were abused and 1 out of 5 males were before the age of 18. Sort of narrows down the odds of people you can "deal with". Interesting that they just can't tell sometimes who that woman or man is...

Isn't that interesting??

[_The Nehor]

If guys don't like painful baggage, then they shouldn't create it.

To your statement, a hearty AMEN!

[_harmony]

I'm going to perhaps be a sleazeball here.

After dating two victims of abuse and/or rape, I plan to avoid relationships like that in the future. Part of it was lingering issues they had that made them unable to really open up and the odd habits they had picked up. Another part of it is that I couldn't cope with it. I wanted to fix it, to make it better, to help her. I couldn't do anything. It drove me nuts. Maybe that is a flaw in me. That's great but I don't know how to repair it and I don't plan to stake my future or anyone else's on the hope that one day down the road I will get over it.

It has nothing to do with seeing victims as damaged goods. I've just learned a little something about my limits. I should also note that I have two agnostic friends who won't date anyone who has been abused either. I don't think it has to do with the LDS Church. It's guys in general. In case you haven't picked up on this, we don't like lots of painful baggage in the past. I blame the Y chromosome.

It's not fair to your daughter. It's not fair to you either. That doesn't change reality though. No one picks a romantic partner because the other person deserves someone (if they do I think they're mad). You do it because you like and love each other and you think you can make a happy life together.

"The world is a bunch of people running around screaming and flailing their arms. The idea is to find someone running in the same direction who is unlikely to smack you in the face too often."

Well, at least you're an honest sleazeball ;-) You make a great case for not telling, Nehor. For keeping secrets. For living a lie.

The guy she's dating now didn't run; he advised her to go to counseling, which is what precipitated her telling us what had happened to her. He told her he'd been to counseling a few years ago, and it helped him a lot. So far, he hasn't written her off as too much trouble. Even if nothing comes of their relationship, I'll always respect him. The man lives his religion.