Lets see here, we spoke of what a testimony is and how it is not an accurate method of determining truth.
On a personal basis, or as a collection of testimonies collected over thousands of years that testify of the same thing?
So now it's a numbers game?? Well, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, Gaz, but Mormonism doesn't have the numbers.
The people of the Bible, the people of the Book of Mormon, the members of the church of this dispensation.......
Being that people of the Bible might have existed and the people of the Book of Mormon were produced out of whole cloth I observe that this characterization does not fit observed reality.
People of the church? You have to be kidding, right? Even with the FLDS your numbers still come up very short.
So, since this is a numbers game here is a chart illustrating the fallacy of your argument:
And crawling on the planet's face Some insects called the human race Lost in time And lost in space...and meaning
Lets see here, we spoke of what a testimony is and how it is not an accurate method of determining truth.
On a personal basis, or as a collection of testimonies collected over thousands of years that testify of the same thing?
On the fact, experienced directly by myself as a missionary and many others who have also expressed the same overwhelming consensus. Moroni 10 clearly sets up the Mormon "testimony" for failure. 199 out of 200 individuals who I taught the discussions to verbatim found that the Book of Mormon does not deliver "the spirit" or any other confirmation. Sure, wrap it up in bad procedure as such is routine in explaining away a lack of a supposed spiritual witness, its expected from the faithful.
The thousands of testimonies are drowned out by the torrent of individuals who have prayed and followed "moronis gimmick" and still came up with opposite conclusions. The Mormon testimony is neither reliable or consistent.
I rarely found people who would even make the attempt. Those who did (all of them) joined the Church. That is my own experience with Moroni's promise.
One moment in annihilation's waste, one moment, of the well of life to taste- The stars are setting and the caravan starts for the dawn of nothing; Oh, make haste! -Omar Khayaam
Lets see here, we spoke of what a testimony is and how it is not an accurate method of determining truth.
On a personal basis, or as a collection of testimonies collected over thousands of years that testify of the same thing?
On the fact, experienced directly by myself as a missionary and many others who have also expressed the same overwhelming consensus. Moroni 10 clearly sets up the Mormon "testimony" for failure. 199 out of 200 individuals who I taught the discussions to verbatim found that the Book of Mormon does not deliver "the spirit" or any other confirmation. Sure, wrap it up in bad procedure as such is routine in explaining away a lack of a supposed spiritual witness, its expected from the faithful.
The thousands of testimonies are drowned out by the torrent of individuals who have prayed and followed "moronis gimmick" and still came up with opposite conclusions. The Mormon testimony is neither reliable or consistent.
I rarely found people who would even make the attempt. Those who did (all of them) joined the Church. That is my own experience with Moroni's promise.
Really? how many of them stayed in the church for more than a few months?
Edited to add: I do not believe you, as we were instructed at the time as missionaries to have them pray during the first discussion. MANY people prayed and the suckers who bit usually didn't return our calls after we coached them through how they were supposed to "feel".
And crawling on the planet's face Some insects called the human race Lost in time And lost in space...and meaning
Mercury wrote:Really? how many of them stayed in the church for more than a few months?
I lost touch with three of the four families. The fourth is still happily active.
Edited to add: I do not believe you, as we were instructed at the time as missionaries to have them pray during the first discussion. MANY people prayed and the suckers who bit usually didn't return our calls after we coached them through how they were supposed to "feel".
We always invited people to pray in general upon our first visit, but never specifically whether the Book of Mormon is true. We gave them some passages to read, though.
One moment in annihilation's waste, one moment, of the well of life to taste- The stars are setting and the caravan starts for the dawn of nothing; Oh, make haste! -Omar Khayaam
Mercury wrote:Really? how many of them stayed in the church for more than a few months?
I lost touch with three of the four families. The fourth is still happily active.
Wait....your sample set of, I believe your words were 'all of them', is....4???
And all of the others that didn't get the testimony just didn't take it seriously...uh huh.
Anyone that would take the Book of Mormon/Joseph Smith story seriously is looking for religion. Had the JW's beat you to the door, they would probably be JW's right now.
If there's one thing I've learned from this board, it's that consensual sex with multiple partners is okay unless God commands it. - Abman
I find this place to be hostile toward all brands of stupidity. That's why I like it. - Some Schmo
Scottie wrote:Wait....your sample set of, I believe your words were 'all of them', is....4???
Right. It's a personal example.
And all of the others that didn't get the testimony just didn't take it seriously...uh huh.
It was difficult to get people to read the Book of Mormon and pray about it. More difficult than I anticipated.
Anyone that would take the Book of Mormon/Joseph Smith story seriously is looking for religion.
In many cases that is probably true. People generally don't look for something they aren't looking for. ;)
Had the JW's beat you to the door, they would probably be JW's right now.
Too simplistic. There are some people who may fit this description, however. None that I saw baptized personally, though.
One moment in annihilation's waste, one moment, of the well of life to taste- The stars are setting and the caravan starts for the dawn of nothing; Oh, make haste! -Omar Khayaam
One moment in annihilation's waste, one moment, of the well of life to taste- The stars are setting and the caravan starts for the dawn of nothing; Oh, make haste! -Omar Khayaam
LifeOnaPlate wrote:In the Milwaukee, Wisconsin mission.
LOL, I served in Minnesota/Wisconsin/Iowa/Michigan
Must have been bigger way back then. Currently the mission covers most of the state (except the west bump) and the UP.
One moment in annihilation's waste, one moment, of the well of life to taste- The stars are setting and the caravan starts for the dawn of nothing; Oh, make haste! -Omar Khayaam
