LDS Apologetics Operating Costs Are More Than $7,000,000

[_Trevor]

But many LDS apologists make it their business to find out the financial details of UTLM and other ministries which are critical of the LDS church. They'd do better to answer the arguments rather than smear the people with whom they disagree.

What's good for the goose and all that.

[_cksalmon]

Corrupt to the core? Is that your interpretation? Interesting. Personally, I did not get the sense that you were being accused of utter corruption. Perhaps excessive zeal in a cause you deeply believe in. Are there reasonable people on this board? I think so. I am rather impressed with Jason Bourne and Ray A, to name only two of many. The unreasonable people are few and very vocal. Then there are a few who are completely inane. Interestingly, they all reside on both sides of the issue, and I think most everyone would agree that you are not corrupt to the core. Maybe a little strange, and perhaps overzealous, but corrupt to the core? Now who's exaggerating?

Unfortunately, DCP's responses generally tend to include inflationary rhetoric, both here and on MADB. Of course, no one accused him of being "corrupt to the core," but that sort of supposed, absurd extremism, irreal as it is undemonstrated, is easier to defend against than the criticisms typically--though not always--proffered here. (Some of them are whack.)

[_degaston]

Frankly it doesn't matter one bit in proving Mormonism true whether or not FARMS gives public disclosure on their budget. All it does is help set an atmosphere of whether or not they are credible. And only FARMS and their stakeholders can decide the answer to the following question.

How much are we willing to sacrifice our credibility for the sake of keeping our finances secret?

[_degaston]

.... I recall when my girlfriend told me about the host of BYU guys that assailed Cody Judy, the guy who held a fake bomb to Howard Hunter. A whole gang dog-piled him. Some were kicking, and others were shouting things like "don't mess with the elders of Israel!" Now, in most situations like this, the group would have waited for the authorities to talk the bozo down, understanding that Judy just might have a real bomb, and that jumping him could be potentially hazardous to more people than Judy, Hunter, and themselves. With a scary zeal to protect an "elder of Israel", they abandoned good sense and regard for the lives of everyone including themselves to demonstrate that zeal by beating the s**t out of Judy .....

I was physically present in the vast audience at the Marriott Center for that fireside where Cody Judy showed up. At the time nobody really knew whether or not the briefcase contained a real bomb. That guy running/carrying it out of the Marriott Center sure didn't know. Someday I'd like to personally thank him for making what could've been the ultimate sacrifice for all the rest of us who were in attendance that evening. Now back to Judy ..... the opinion amongst the people sitting near me was that Cody Judy was holding a gun and threatening Hunter and the rest of the people there with it. Thus it hardly surprised me that he was dog-piled. And that dog-piling took place after another man ran out with the briefcase. I did think it was brave of Hunter to stay put up there while the rest of the people on the stand (i.e. mostly BYU SP's with their wives) fled. I don't think those people were just dogpiling him because of Hunter.

[_Mister Scratch]

Sigh.

Vintage Scratch.

FARMS doesn't have an operating budget in the tens of milions [sic], nor one of ten million, nor anywhere close to that amount.

Then how do you explain the material printed in that FARMS letter dated Nov. 20 1995, sent following the publication of the Aug. 1995 Insights? Obviously, you guys were able to wrangle $7,000,000 back during the 1990s, and presumably you have brought in more money since that time. How much, all told, would you say that FARMS has brought in? $20 million? $50 million? A hundred? Based on the evidence we have, it seems clear that the operations of FARMS have been financed with figures in the tens of millions. The fact that you seem terrified of proffering even a ballpark figure is very telling.

Another question: how much of FARMS's budget comes from donations, and how much comes from the Church?

How many "Liahona"-level members exist, and how much sway do they have in terms of the direction of Mopologetics? When "Liahona"-class members contact Professional Fundraiser Snow, does he gently nudge them towards giving directly to FARMS Review, or other strictly apologetic ventures?

[_GoodK]

Sigh.

Vintage Scratch.

Then how do you explain the material printed in that FARMS letter dated Nov. 20 1995, sent following the publication of the Aug. 1995 Insights? Obviously, you guys were able to wrangle $7,000,000 back during the 1990s, and presumably you have brought in more money since that time. How much, all told, would you say that FARMS has brought in? $20 million? $50 million? A hundred? Based on the evidence we have, it seems clear that the operations of FARMS have been financed with figures in the tens of millions. The fact that you seem terrified of proffering even a ballpark figure is very telling.

Another question: how much of FARMS's budget comes from donations, and how much comes from the Church?

How many "Liahona"-level members exist, and how much sway do they have in terms of the direction of Mopologetics? When "Liahona"-class members contact Professional Fundraiser Snow, does he gently nudge them towards giving directly to FARMS Review, or other strictly apologetic ventures?

Now this is vintage Scratch. And I love it.

[_Gadianton]

Trever,

I agree with your point that they don't want to intimidate potential donors who only can give a thousand dollars. I thought about that and I agree. It also occured to me they want a little more control with the big spenders. Kind of like the dealership wants to make sure you talk to a salesman before buying a car, maybe you can be talked up a little?

[_Trevor]

I was physically present in the vast audience at the Marriott Center for that fireside where Cody Judy showed up. At the time nobody really knew whether or not the briefcase contained a real bomb. That guy running/carrying it out of the Marriott Center sure didn't know. Someday I'd like to personally thank him for making what could've been the ultimate sacrifice for all the rest of us who were in attendance that evening. Now back to Judy ..... the opinion amongst the people sitting near me was that Cody Judy was holding a gun and threatening Hunter and the rest of the people there with it. Thus it hardly surprised me that he was dog-piled. And that dog-piling took place after another man ran out with the briefcase. I did think it was brave of Hunter to stay put up there while the rest of the people on the stand (i.e. mostly BYU SP's with their wives) fled. I don't think those people were just dogpiling him because of Hunter.

My girlfriend, who is now my wife, was physically present too. The fact that they dog-piled him after the briefcase was gone is perhaps even more disturbing. Now they weren't sending their lives to Jesus; they were merely kicking the s**t out of an unarmed man. I agree with you concerning the bravery of Hunter. And it doesn't surprise me, since he was a really good man. What remains disturbing to me is the way these kids took matters into their own hands. You may think it brave. I find it supremely foolhardy and stupid.

[_Trevor]

How much are we willing to sacrifice our credibility for the sake of keeping our finances secret?

Good question.

[_Trevor]

I agree with your point that they don't want to intimidate potential donors who only can give a thousand dollars. I thought about that and I agree. It also occured to me they want a little more control with the big spenders. Kind of like the dealership wants to make sure you talk to a salesman before buying a car, maybe you can be talked up a little?

I hadn't thought of that, but I think you have something there.