Book of Mormon apologetic of last resort?

[_dartagnan]

This does not make sense. You were married for less than five years (I thought). Did you marry your wife while leaving the faith? If so, why marry her within the confines of the faith? It seems like a false premise from the beginning.

I've been married for roughly 6 1/2 years. So no, I did not get married under false pretenses. But my journey out of the faith was a long and complicated one. I'm still a member in name, and I attend with my wife and kids whenever they want me to. But I know Joseph Smith was not what he claimed to be, so I cannot in good conscience hold callings or bear my testimony, as some try to get me to do.

When presented the Book of Abraham dilemma, I remained in apologist mode for a good year or so, seeking out plausible explanations to ease my concerns. I was promised that one was forthcoming. But when Hauglid made his presentation at FAIR, that pretty much did it for me. I lost hope.

Perhaps the problem was your attitude, and not your arguments?

Anything is possible, but I think it was a combination of the arguments along with the fact that I was a "believer" in doubt. At least if I were an apostate, they could dismiss me on that basis. Some were actually pushing me to that end just so i could get out of their hair. At FAIR, all you have to do is cry "apostate" and that guarantees no Mormon will listen to you. But an apologist in stress attracts inquiring minds. That drove them nuts. They wanted to ban me immediately, but it would have been too obvious that they were just trying to censor me. So they started their "warnings" and eventually used that list of complaints as an excuse.

A few others were more patient and hoped I would stick it out until some amazing Book of Abraham apologetic was developed. But as Trevor wrote to me several years ago, because I was within the fold admitting there are serious issues that need to be addressed, I presented them with a problem that they didn't know how to deal with. The guys at FAIR like to think that all problems have been resolved, and that any doubt is due to some kind of sin. It can never be the end of an intellectual journey.

[_beastie]

Perhaps the problem was your attitude, and not your arguments?

Fellow apologists would not have had the slightest problem with dart's attitude had he toed the party line.

[_antishock8]

Ain't that the truth, Sister. Besides, what does "attitude" have to do with anything, especially the veracity of Mormon claims? It doesn't. Something is true and proveable independent of our attitudes. What a silly statement.

[_dartagnan]

I think history shows that I was just the tip of the iceberg. Once they got rid of me, a faithful apologist, they figured they nothing left to lose in showing their agenda/bias, so they started banning people right after left for the slightest infractions. Others were banned with no apparent reason or explanation.

[_Pumplehoober]

I've been married for roughly 6 1/2 years. So no, I did not get married under false pretenses.

Given that you are pimping yourself as single, and new to the area, on your MySpace page I assumed your marriage was over.

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu ... =376759236

Despite my personal distaste for you I did not necessarily want your children to grow up without their father, so this is good.

Anything is possible, but I think it was a combination of the arguments along with the fact that I was a "believer" in doubt.

Perhaps you could post a link to the arguments you made which upset people? One where you are censored would be good.

[_dartagnan]

Oh yea, I'm such the pimp! I forgot that myspace page existed. I probably accessed it three times since I opened it a year ago. It was one of those ten second sign up jobs and didn't bother to fill out much of anything, but it was hardly for "pimping" myself. I was gonna use it to store videos and such but never really used it for anything.

In any event, there is no need for me to link to past discussions between MADB mods and myself. Everyone here already knows what I'm referring to. The only person I'd be trying to convince would be you, and I'm just not that interested; and we already know what a futile endeavor that would be anyway.

[_Pumplehoober]

Oh yea, I'm such the pimp! I forgot that myspace page existed.

This is not true, you logged onto the site yesterday, and this morning before I mentioned it. You know the site has a "last visited" section?

I probably accessed it three times since I opened it a year ago.

Again not true. You opened the account on the 3rd of May 2008, again according to the site. Why lie about all of this?

It was one of those ten second sign up jobs and didn't bother to fill out much of anything, but it was hardly for "pimping" myself. I was gonna use it to store videos and such but never really used it for anything.

Again not true, you accessed the site several times in the past few days, opened it a little over three months ago, claimed you had left Brazil, and claimed you were single. Now apparently you have deleted all of the information, odd at that. I simply assumed you were getting divorced over your apostasy. What is really going on? Why would you delete the information now?

In any event, there is no need for me to link to past discussions between MADB mods and myself. Everyone here already knows what I'm referring to. The only person I'd be trying to convince would be you, and I'm just not that interested; and we already know what a futile endeavor that would be anyway.

There is plenty of reason. Where did moderation dismiss you because of your arguments or lack of faith? It seemed to be your hubris and bigotry that was the cause, not your lack of faith.

[_beastie]

There is plenty of reason. Where did moderation dismiss you because of your arguments or lack of faith? It seemed to be your hubris and bigotry that was the cause, not your lack of faith.

Heh, if that were the case, they would have gotten rid of Pahoran long ago.

[_Daniel Peterson]

Fellow apologists would not have had the slightest problem with dart's attitude had he toed the party line.

That's flatly and demonstrably not true in the case of at least one reasonably well-known apologist.

[_beastie]

That's flatly and demonstrably not true in the case of at least one reasonably well-known apologist.

Yes, I was exaggerating. I'm certain some apologists had some discomfort over his style and may have even chided him now and then. But as far as being booted off a site like MAD or FAIR - it takes an extraordinary amount of ugliness from a defender of the faith before they even get a temporary boot, much less a permanent one.

So can you provide us links to where the reasonably well known apologist confronted dart when he was on the side of the believers?