The Church is in excellent condition. You don’t need to worry about that.
This is my favorite statement. If another depression hits, I'm sure one of the members' first concerns will be about the financial condition of the church.
Begin to save. [...] Give up selfishness.
That's a contradiction. Isn't saving selfishness in action? It's the smart thing to do, of course, but it's definitely selfish. Total selflessness would be to give your money to those who need it more instead of saving it for yourself.
"The DNA of fictional populations appears to be the most susceptible to extinction." - Simon Southerton
The Dude wrote:Well, that does little to change my mind, LOAP. I'm still going to the liquor store on my way home from work.
haha, clever. I likes.
One moment in annihilation's waste, one moment, of the well of life to taste- The stars are setting and the caravan starts for the dawn of nothing; Oh, make haste! -Omar Khayaam
The Church is in excellent condition. You don’t need to worry about that.
This is my favorite statement. If another depression hits, I'm sure one of the members' first concerns will be about the financial condition of the church.
Begin to save. [...] Give up selfishness.
That's a contradiction. Isn't saving selfishness in action? It's the smart thing to do, of course, but it's definitely selfish. Total selflessness would be to give your money to those who need it more instead of saving it for yourself.
It's hard to help others with funds if you have nones. It is an interesting point you raise, however, how to balance.
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One moment in annihilation's waste, one moment, of the well of life to taste- The stars are setting and the caravan starts for the dawn of nothing; Oh, make haste! -Omar Khayaam
LifeOnaPlate wrote:It's hard to help others with funds if you have nones. It is an interesting point you raise, however, how to balance.
It really is a balancing act. To be totally selfless would actually be self destructive. We have to be selfish enough to take care of our own needs and those of our families, but we should not be so selfish that we don't help out those in need whenever we can.
"The DNA of fictional populations appears to be the most susceptible to extinction." - Simon Southerton
Nick Hornby (author of "About a Boy" and ) wrote an interesting book called How to Be Good
It's the story of a woman who is leaving her husband for another man, but then something happens and her bitter, cynical husband becomes good. Very good. He starts giving their money to the homeless. He donates their "surplus" to the local shelter. He invites a homeless man to live with them, and then holds a neighborhood meeting to challenge their neighbors to invite homeless to live in their unused bedrooms. Then the woman has to figure out what this change might mean for their relationship. And as a doctor, she also has to reevaluate her attitude towards her patients. It's a funny book to see just what life might be like if a family member really decided to be "good" in the way the New Testament teaches, but in a very literal and meaningful way.
It definitely makes you think about all the "good" things you could do, but don't because you long since rationalized your comfort and security.
(Warning: the book has many frank discussions of the physical relationship between a husband and wife, as well as salty language throughout.)
Hello everyone - This is my first post. I read through many of the posts and usually enjoy the discussion (allbeit from the outside). I have thought of posting many times before, but this has just pushed me into the game. A few quick notes about me 1- I do attend my home ward in Utah every week. 2- I pay a full tithe. 3- I served a mission and was married in the temple. 4- I served in a bishopric as 1st counseler for more than five years. 5- I have went through 'a crisis of faith' and no longer believe the church to be what it claims to be. 6- I remain a Mormon because of the opportunities it gives me to serve others in a Christlike way (helping old ladies move, cleaning yards, giving a helping hand, etc). 7 - I believe that salvation is through the grace of Jesus Christ. Enough of that. Its stuff like this from BKP that pushes me futher and further away from the 'church'. Many of you who have seen/heard BKP speak can just imagine the stern/authoritative way he approaches the podium and would give the above message. While most members would practically wet themselves at the great joy of being able to be in the presence of one of the idols of Mormonism (while grabbing their notebooks or other recording devices for the word of the Lord to filter down to them in the voice of the President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles a.k.a. BKP). A voice swells inside of me that says, "Damn, that's one old grumpy dude." I know, I must be under the influence of Satan. Now is there anything wrong with the advice that he gives? For all intents and purposses - no. Should we be more frugule? Should we hunker down for some hard times? Should we pray more? I would say yes to all of the above. (I guess I am a prophet as well). The problem I have with what BKP said is where he would ask us to direct our faith and hope. For those whom had previously wet themsleves in the presence of God, whoops I mean BKP, their idol is before them. As long as they look to him and the rest of the bretheren life will be good. He assures them of this. Follow BKP words and advice and they will be blessed. So when some unbelieving member has to get verification the BKP had actually said this (either from the church directly, or BKP's office) we are reminded that what he said should only be looked at as his personal opinion (I didn't know they were allowed to have those). Christ has given ample warning in the scriptures for those who look to him through the written word. Salvation is not to be found in the walls of the church, but through the grace of Jesus Christ to all those who believe. And to those who do not believe, Christ's grace will save them as well (my own personal belief). Does BKP ever say this? Does he ever give people hope in Christ? He seems way to busy talking about creditors and debters, little factories, how truth really isn't useful, and how feminists, intellectuals, and homosexuals are the scum of the earth. He also reminded us just recently, in the church news, how he will be there to testify against those whom has has warned (the poor missionary who wouldn't yield to BKP's view of the gospel). I guess we have all been warned. Does anyone know any good lawyers? Or possibly we may only need an a good advocate with the father. But worst of all of this is the TBM's out there that will use this talk to dominate all aspects of Mormonism. I can just hear in Sunday School next week, "Did you hear about the talk that President Packer gave just recently? Wow, it was just fechin awesome. God said through Lord Packer that the world would soon come to an end and it is all our fault because we are so wicked. I told you that gay marraige would doom us. But, if we were to pay our tithing, and look to the church, all would be ok. Salvation truely is dependent on our tithe and devotion to the church. I say this in the name of.......". that's bad news for most of us Mormons, but the rest of Gods children, who happen not to belong to the church, are really screwed. Well God must not have loved them as much or they would have been born Mormon, that pre-existance thing really sucks for some. Sorry to take so long, I feel better now. BKP's view of the world is troubleing.
And again, if ye by the grace of God are perfect in Christ, and deny not his power, then are ye sanctified in Christ by the grace of God, through the shedding of the blood of Christ, which is in the covenant of the father unto the remission of your sins, that ye become holy without spot.
cj1388 wrote:A few quick notes about me 1- I do attend my home ward in Utah every week. 2- I pay a full tithe. 3- I served a mission and was married in the temple. 4- I served in a bishopric as 1st counseler for more than five years. 5- I have went through 'a crisis of faith' and no longer believe the church to be what it claims to be. 6- I remain a Mormon because of the opportunities it gives me to serve others in a Christlike way (helping old ladies move, cleaning yards, giving a helping hand, etc). 7 - I believe that salvation is through the grace of Jesus Christ. Enough of that. Its stuff like this from BKP that pushes me futher and further away from the 'church'....
Hi cj1388. Thanks for introducing yourself. It's nice to have new people come around the board.
You remain a Mormon, so do you still pay tithing? That was, I believe, BKP's whole point in that rant.
"And yet another little spot is smoothed out of the echo chamber wall..." Bond
cj1388 wrote:Hello everyone - This is my first post.
Welcome, cj. This is the place where your voice can be heard.
BKP's main problem is manifest throughout our upper leadership tier. He doesn't believe in Christ; he believes in the church. He believes in priesthood authority, not the saving grace of the Atonement. He speaks as a man, not as a mouthpiece for God.
And it's danged sad that a man could worship himself for so long.
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
Hi cj1388. Thanks for introducing yourself. It's nice to have new people come around the board.
You remain a Mormon, so do you still pay tithing? That was, I believe, BKP's whole point in that rant.[/quote]
I do still pay tithing. I still believe we reap what we sow. Its a universal law. I don't think that tithing has to be paid to the church (at this time I do still pay it to the church). I just don't beleive we can buy Jesus' favor. I find it quite offensive that Mormon salvation depends on payment of cold hard cash to the 'church'. Just think about it, if you are not Temple worthy, than you are not going to the Celestial Kingdom. If you don't pay your tithing than you are not Temple worthy (I have performed many interviews). That means you will not be with your family according to Mormon Doctrine if you are not a full tithe payer to the COJCOLDS. That is one way the church manipulates their members. Most everyone wants to be with their families for eternity, so many of us hedge our bet by paying tithing. It helps us feel better. I am not argueing about tithing, people who pay in faith I am sure are blessed. I think that I have been blessed. But I believe those blessing would be had by being charitable to other people/organizations. I would like to think this is a way I will be heading at some point in the future. Now what the church does with the money is a whole other post.
And again, if ye by the grace of God are perfect in Christ, and deny not his power, then are ye sanctified in Christ by the grace of God, through the shedding of the blood of Christ, which is in the covenant of the father unto the remission of your sins, that ye become holy without spot.
Hi cj1388, welcome to THE Board. Enjoyed you intro. Hope to 'hear' more from You. Not sure if you are aware, that BKP piece is a hoax; so my Ward Sec EMd me today. NTL, it is quite representative of his profile.
Roger
Have you noticed what a beautiful day it is? Some can't... "God": nick-name for the Universe...