The Baloney Detection Kit

[_Daniel Peterson]

Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon through a peepstone. According to reports, words would appear on the stone. I think it's fair to refer to that as a magic stone.

That you think that "fair" is one of the reasons I think it pointless to talk with you about the subject.

And, since I think it pointless, I choose not to do so. I have that right. Complain though you will.

[_Gadianton Plumber]

No reasonable person could possibly perceive the stone-in-a-hat trick as "magic." Magic is terminology that only refers to supernatural things that are untrue. The power of God is science, that's why so many things make such perfect sense when viewed properly. Magic is an inflammatory term used by bigots.

[_beastie]

Magic:

adj.

1. Of, relating to, or invoking the supernatural: “stubborn unlaid ghost/That breaks his magic chains at curfew time” (John Milton).
2. Possessing distinctive qualities that produce unaccountable or baffling effects.

http://www.answers.com/topic/magic

[_Some Schmo]

Someone needs to email Shermer a link to DCP's postings on SHIELDS, so that Shermer will know what he's in for.

LOL. Malignant, as always, eh Scratchy? Gossip, spin, and character assassination. It never changes.

What? It would just be a link, to an old friend. How is that "gossip, spin, and character assassination"? Surely you of all people can appreciate the harmlessness in just sending a link.

LOL!!

Awesome, Scratch. I guess we know what little dannyboy really thinks of "just sending a link."

Too funny.

[_Brackite]

Magic:

Music:

1. You Can do Magic by America:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBB7NJvc3zY



2. Pilot - Oh Oh It's Magic:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjtyBI8dzAI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96kwILL35ig

Too bad that I can't listen to these songs right now.

[_Mercury]

With due respect Daniel, the Book of Mormon refers explicitly to the finger of God touching stones and making them glow--quite a bit different from what you've linked here. If the Book of Mormon had talked about the Bro of Jared finding naturally glowing stones, then you might have an argument, but it does not. The specific reference is to stones transformed through miraculous (e.g. finger of God) means into glowing orbs. As a friendly word of advice, I would not recommend trying this line of argumentation with Shermer. Unless, that is, FARMS can demonstrate the the stones mentioned is this article got that way because God touched them with his finger.

Nice try, but no go.

I disagree. I don't know what God is capable of doing, but am content, at this point, to simply acknowledge that glowing stones do appear to be a possibility. If they're a possibility, and God exists, it's not fatally absurd to suppose that God could make a stone glow. (If he created the universe and resurrects the dead, making a rock shine seems pretty small potatoes by comparison.)

I doubt very much that Dr. Shermer and I will get into this level of specificity. Anyway, if we do, I'm fine with it.

What a ludicrous and shallow reply. Shermer is going to own you if you engage him. Its like arguing with the retarded though, since you will come away dumber and more intent in your beliefs that have no evidence for backing.

[_Daniel Peterson]

What a ludicrous and shallow reply. Shermer is going to own you if you engage him. Its like arguing with the retarded though, since you will come away dumber and more intent in your beliefs that have no evidence for backing.

It appears that I'm doomed. If a philosopher of your caliber believes I'm mistaken, then Dr. Shermer will make short work of me.

Aieeeeee! What am I to do?

[_Daniel Peterson]

Magic is an inflammatory term used by bigots.

That's often true.

In any event, it's proven to be an indefinable term.

Back in 1994, I spent two months in an NEH seminar at Princeton University, with a small group (led by John Gager) representing anthropology, New Testament studies, Islamic studies, philosophy, classics, religious studies, and Indology, attempting to define the word magic. We concluded that we couldn't.

[_Daniel Peterson]

Um, that was The Dude and not me. Am I still a smugly condescending jackass?

No, you're off the hook. A simple mechanical error.

Does it occur to you that that's precisely how many people perceive you? Do you have any comprehension why? Does it matter to you?

Yes, yes, and a bit.

It seems to be a serious enough offense to you, as you [rarely] use it to insult others, that one would think that you'd be concerned (and perhaps a bit mortified) to realize that this is precisely what others think of you.

I don't like it much, but I note that I'm almost always defending, while The Dude was simply being offensive -- and that seems to me to be a significant difference.

I don't think personalities always come across accurately on message boards; I'm quite certain that mine doesn't. But there was little ambiguity in The Dude's gratuitous insult. I hadn't mentioned him. But I responded to him when he insulted me.

Again, Cet animal est très méchant; quand on l'attaque, il se défend.

[_beastie]

It's like a game of Mother May I. Anyone with LDS background knew perfectly well what phaedrus meant when he referred to the magic rock. Yet, unless one uses the PC term, DCP will not engage with the topic.

Who the heck cares what it is called? We all know what he meant - and most people would agree that "appropriately PC label for the peepstone and its function" isn't how the world works.