Beastie rocks my socks.

[_Some Schmo]

I'm familiar with the same story. I always took it to mean that Pahoran went from being kind of aa dick to being a walking self-parody of a dick - really the difference between a Some Schmo and a Droopy.

Wait... am I "kind of a dick" or "a walking self-parody of a dick?"

Just curious.

[_harmony]

But I was interested in setting the record straight...

Why? It's not like there are any neutral parties left. Everyone's already taken sides.

[_Some Schmo]

by the way, since this thread is about beastie, let me just say, I don't really have much to say to her because I generally agree with what she writes.

Sometimes I wonder why she goes to the trouble of meticulously outlining her argument (like this latest episode with Pahoran... I mean, it's Pahoran. Who gives a crap? You can dismiss him before he starts writing), but I know she would explain it by saying she does it for the lurkers, not the people with whom she's arguing. I find that noble, and it's far more effort than I'm willing to expend.

So, yeah, I like beastie too, but nowhere near enough to give her 10% of my cash. Sorry b.

;)


______

[_beastie]

by the way, since this thread is about beastie, let me just say, I don't really have much to say to her because I generally agree with what she writes.

Sometimes I wonder why she goes to the trouble of meticulously outlining her argument (like this latest episode with Pahoran... I mean, it's Pahoran. Who gives a crap? You can dismiss him before he starts writing), but I know she would explain it by saying she does it for the lurkers, not the people with whom she's arguing. I find that noble, and it's far more effort than I'm willing to expend.

So, yeah, I like beastie too, but nowhere near enough to give her 10% of my cash. Sorry b.

Heathen. No, wait - dick! ;)

Actually, I'm not sure why I'm sometimes willing to go to such an effort. Maybe a shrink could figure it out. I think it's partly bouts of idleness and boredom. I probably need to find a more meaningful hobby, and I have been working on it - actually with some success until Pahoran tempted beyond my apparent ability to resist.

I do think lurkers can benefit from such efforts, although, in this case, the point was simply to demonstrate the sheer hypocrisy of Pahoran, so that point is probably less interesting to lurkers.

Harmony -

Why? It's not like there are any neutral parties left. Everyone's already taken sides.

I don't think that's entirely true. I do believe that there are believers on MAD who dislike Pahoran's posting style, and would be just as happy to see him get a bit of come'uppance as critics would be. Certainly there were some believers willing to object when I was being insulted right and left. But I may be naïve. It probably bores most people.

[_harmony]

Harmony -

Why? It's not like there are any neutral parties left. Everyone's already taken sides.

I don't think that's entirely true. I do believe that there are believers on MAD who dislike Pahoran's posting style, and would be just as happy to see him get a bit of come'uppance as critics would be. Certainly there were some believers willing to object when I was being insulted right and left. But I may be naïve. It probably bores most people.

I'm sure there are many people who object to Pahoran's "style", or who would object, if it didn't mean pulling down the wrath of the Wench on their heads. What I don't see is anyone with any perceived authority in that camp. And what I don't understand is why, given MAD's history, anyone... anyone... with an ounce of humanity on either side posts on that site. It's this fascination with Pahoran and MAD is like the fascination some people have with creepy crawlies, train wrecks, or snakes; it's just hard to look away.

[_beastie]

I'm sure there are many people who object to Pahoran's "style", or who would object, if it didn't mean pulling down the wrath of the Wench on their heads. What I don't see is anyone with any perceived authority in that camp. And what I don't understand is why, given MAD's history, anyone... anyone... with an ounce of humanity on either side posts on that site. It's this fascination with Pahoran and MAD is like the fascination some people have with creepy crawlies, train wrecks, or snakes; it's just hard to look away.

I'm not sure what you mean by "anyone with perceived authority in that camp."

But I do think you're engaging in a bit of hyperbole with the "ounce of humanity". Anyone who posts on MAD should do so with full awareness of what it is. That's actually a point in their benefit, because they are very open about what it is. Sethpayne recently invited the wrath of the mods by commenting on their action of banning me from P's thread:

Nice double standard, Mods. Bravo.

You could at least try to appear even-handed in your banishments.

(I actually thought there was a good chance he'd be banned for that comment)

Since when have we ever stated we are even handed.

QUOTE
The moderators are not FAIR, no really we are not FAIR. Please don't waste our time fighting every decision made by a mod. No one has died from a bad moderator call.

But choosing to be - temporarily - a second class citizen who has to watch every word one says, while enduring numerous insults from others - doesn't mean they don't have an ounce of humanity. It just means they're willing to put up with the situation for some other purpose that they, at least at the moment, believe overrides the basic human desire for fairness and justice.

For me, the fascination with Pahoran is more a fascination with the fact that other LDS often seem pleased with him. The LDS I know in real life are very polite and kind, and would be horrified and embarrassed to see another LDS behave like Pahoran. Yet many other believers on the net enjoy him. What does that mean? Does it mean that real life LDS are hiding a mean streak? Or does it mean that the internet attracts an unusual kind of LDS person in the first place?

My old ward had a Pahoran-like fellow. He was the recognized "ward historian", and respected for his knowledge of church history. But everyone knew he was arrogant and had an unpleasant personality, and also had the tendency to engage in malicious letter-writing to people who displeased him (more than one person complained to the leadership about it). Other ward members kind of jointly recognized that his behavior was not "gospel-like", and we were somewhat embarrassed by him and largely hoped to avoid contact with him. I really don't think anyone was pleased by his behavior. Maybe they would have been pleased by his behavior if it were targeted towards critics than towards other believers in the ward, of course.

Speaking of letter-writing, I got yet another PM from Pahoran accusing me of lying. I went ahead and blocked him, because I have the sense he would continue it for a long time - just like that fellow in my old ward that everyone tried to avoid.

[_consiglieri]

For me, the fascination with Pahoran is more a fascination with the fact that other LDS often seem pleased with him. The LDS I know in real life are very polite and kind, and would be horrified and embarrassed to see another LDS behave like Pahoran. Yet many other believers on the net enjoy him. What does that mean?

It may mean you have advanced the beastie corrolary to the Chapel/Internet Mormon theory.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[_beastie]

It may mean you have advanced the beastie corrolary to the Chapel/Internet Mormon theory.

I'm a genius!

Do you agree with my general observation? Would the LDS you know in real life be pleased or gratified to see another member behave in the way Pahoran behaves? If not, why do they seem pleased about it on the net?

Of course, I'm speaking generally. As I already stated on this thread, I believe there are many LDS who do not approve of Pahoran's behavior, even if they are reluctant to say so.

[_consiglieri]

It may mean you have advanced the beastie corrolary to the Chapel/Internet Mormon theory.

I'm a genius!

Do you agree with my general observation? Would the LDS you know in real life be pleased or gratified to see another member behave in the way Pahoran behaves? If not, why do they seem pleased about it on the net?

Of course, I'm speaking generally. As I already stated on this thread, I believe there are many LDS who do not approve of Pahoran's behavior, even if they are reluctant to say so.

I will go on record as saying that I am one LDS who does not approve of Pahoran's behavior.

The Mormons I know in real life would be shocked and embarrassed to see another member behave in such a manner.

Although I am now engaging in speculation, if there are Mormons who approve of Pahoran's behavior on the net, I would suspect it may have something to do with the type of Mormons who post on the MAD Board, many of whom are there to engage in a "fight" with anti-Mormons, and who may see Pahoran as a champion of sorts, who is willing to give out as readily as they may perceive they are getting.

It may be thought by some that the only way to fight fire is with fire, though I tend to think fighting fire with water is more effective.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[_beastie]

Thanks, consig.

Your theory does make sense. The act of deliberately seeking out these type of confrontational interactions is a selective process that makes the pool invalid for comparison to the larger group.

There are many different reasons people seek out these type of interactions - sometimes I'm not quite certain why I do. It's partly habit. Some folks may seek them out because they are looking for information to help them resolve doubts or questions. Some other folks don't seem to have doubts or questions, but still seek them out. Perhaps a subset of that group does it because they do have more aggressive feelings than the average Mormon, and don't really have any acceptable expression of that in their real life. Aggression really is discouraged in (modern) Mormonism. So this is an ideal solution - the aggression can be expressed, and done in a way that allows the individual to still feel "righteous" about its expression, in a way they couldn't in real life. That makes a lot of sense.