I threw myself heart and soul into Mormonism!

[_thews]

Mormonism is an obviously false, silly religion, and trying to pretend that people that point out its obvious flaws are biased is very silly. We don't need to take Mormon apologists seriously because the evidence against them is so strong that their arguments can be dismissed out of hand as ridiculous hogwash.

If a non-believer was honest and did not have an ax to grind with Mormonism, then they would observe that what you said applies to all religions.

This is typical... throw "all religion" under the bus because Mormonism is false. The use of "did not have an axe to grind with Mormonism" implies someone with an axe to grind is required to be critical of it. I'm critical of Mormonism because it's not true and there's a lot of distorted LDS approved information that shields you from the truth. All the temple rituals and polygamy secrets have been hidden from you for a reason. To moksha's comment regarding honesty, the facts dictate the truth... seek the truth and not what you're told the truth should conclude.

Despite this, many people want to make that leap of faith and believe in something. Hopefully whatever they believe in does some good for the world.

In this response, moksha is basically admitting Mormonism is false, but because it does some good it's somehow a good thing. It's still false, so if believing in a lie that enables you to be accepted into a good community, then this should be defined as the primary motive.

Regardless of any of the LDS Church's foundation stories, it does good for the world and is more hands on attentive to its members than many other Churches.

And again we get the rationalization that even though the LDS church is false, it does good for the world. If it were true, then the LDS church would release the papyrus Joseph Smith used to translate the Book of Abraham and the seer stones (they have both of them) Joseph Smith used out of his stove-pipe hat to translate the Book of Mormon. If you don't care about the truth and choose to worship a false prophet, then Mormonism may be for you... they're called NOM's.

[_harmony]

And again we get the rationalization that even though the LDS church is false, it does good for the world. If it were true, then the LDS church would release the papyrus Joseph Smith used to translate the Book of Abraham and the seer stones (they have both of them) Joseph Smith used out of his stove-pipe hat to translate the Book of Mormon. If you don't care about the truth and choose to worship a false prophet, then Mormonism may be for you... they're called NOM's.

Have I done any good in the world today... have I helped anyone along?

And incidently, I don't worship prophets (and don't even start, thews...). They're men, just like like all men, they're wrong, even when they don't admit they're wrong... ESPECIALLY when they don't admit they're wrong.

[_malaise]

If a non-believer was honest and did not have an ax to grind with Mormonism, then they would observe that what you said applies to all religions. Despite this, many people want to make that leap of faith and believe in something. Hopefully whatever they believe in does some good for the world.

Regardless of any of the LDS Church's foundation stories, it does good for the world and is more hands on attentive to its members than many other Churches.

You can look at my signature to see what I think of other religions and how much good they do in the world. I focused on Mormonism in my post because this is a website dedicated to discussing Mormonism, and because it is the religion I am most familiar with. I have also experienced first hand how "good" Mormons are to people once they decide to leave the faith so I am somewhat bitter.

[_malaise]

And again we get the rationalization that even though the LDS church is false, it does good for the world. If it were true, then the LDS church would release the papyrus Joseph Smith used to translate the Book of Abraham and the seer stones (they have both of them) Joseph Smith used out of his stove-pipe hat to translate the Book of Mormon. If you don't care about the truth and choose to worship a false prophet, then Mormonism may be for you... they're called NOM's.

Have I done any good in the world today... have I helped anyone along?

And incidently, I don't worship prophets (and don't even start, thews...). They're men, just like like all men, they're wrong, even when they don't admit they're wrong... ESPECIALLY when they don't admit they're wrong.

I'm assuming you're a believer. How do you know which parts of scripture are wrong and which are right? It seems impossible to accept that the prophets were fallible men and maintain any sort of faith Christian scripture. I know that, personally speaking, learning about the problems with the Book of Mormon as a teenager was what caused me to start losing my faith.

[_Themis]

I have no problem reading the anti stuff. I've been exposed to it for decades and have yet a find a criticism that didn't have a lie, an intellectually dishonest assumption, or yellow journalism, or the like. But unless one is willing to do the work, to research the sources, motovations, and compare quotes etc. a newbie is likely to be misled by antiMormon material.

So another words you have not done the work.

[_Themis]

The poster thews spouts the standard anti-Mormon talking points as if they haven't been dealt with over and over and over again. I urge you to examine both sides if it is at all important to you. Websites like Mormon curtain and Mormon think are very slanted and very hostile to the church. In my opinion, Mormon curtain is a hate site. Websites like FAIR and the Neil A. Maxwell Institute (BYU) are very slanted the other way and friendly toward the church. Read both. If this decision is important to you, read both sides of everything you can.

Now, everyone watch as thews posts his favorite page from the History of the Church, as if I haven't seen it a thousand times.

I agree that one should examine all sides and information available to be in the best position to make choices about the Church. I wonder though if most apologists do not understand pointing one to fair and farms is usually makes things worse in regards to belief in LDS claims, and is even worse if you are pointing an investigator to these sites and articles.

[_harmony]

I'm assuming you're a believer.

But a believer in what? or rather... who? Certainly not men.

How do you know which parts of scripture are wrong and which are right? It seems impossible to accept that the prophets were fallible men and maintain any sort of faith Christian scripture. I know that, personally speaking, learning about the problems with the Book of Mormon as a teenager was what caused me to start losing my faith.

Depends on whether or not they resonate with my worldview. The Gospel according to harmony!

And no, Nathan need not apply.

[_Joseph]

For a start, the words and teachings of a Living Apostle of Jesus Christ, Dallin Oaks. The information below should help you with some 'inspired teachings and beliefs' of LDS leadership.

On August 16, 1985, Apostle Dallin Oaks tried to ease the fears of Mormon educators with regard to the Salamander letter by claiming that the words "white salamander" could be reconciled with Joseph Smith's statement about the appearance of the Angel Moroni:

"Another source of differences in the accounts of different witnesses is the different meanings that different persons attach to words. We have a vivid illustration of this in the recent media excitement about the word 'salamander' in a letter Martin Harris is supposed to have sent to W.W. Phelps over 150 years ago. All of the scores of media stories on that subject apparently assume that the author of that letter used the word 'salamander' in the modern sense of a 'tailed amphibian.'

"One wonders why so many writers neglected to reveal to their readers that there is another meaning of 'salamander,' which may even have been the primary meaning in this context in the 1820s.... That meaning... is 'a mythical being thought to be able to live in fire.'...

"A being that is able to live in fire is a good approximation of the description Joseph Smith gave of the Angel Moroni:... the use of the words white salamander and old spirit seem understandable.

"In view of all this, and as a matter of intellectual evaluation, why all the excitement in the media, and why the apparent hand-wringing among those who profess friendship or membership in the Church?" ("1985 CES Doctrine and Covenants Symposium," pages 22-23)
--------------------------------------------------

For those not familiar with Hoffman and the forged documents this link may help.
http://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/trackin ... sions2.htm

Odd that The Lord's Anointed did not detect the forgeries but Jerald Tanner, one of the main Anti-Mormon researchers around was the one raising doubts and questions. At the time Hoffman was not happy with Jerald over this.

[_Joseph]

You will also want to visit http://www.mormoncurtain.com where you will be able to read a number of articles from many sources on Mormon beliefs and practices.

[_why me]

It seems that this thread was started by a troll since Spaulding has left the building. His screen name should have given a clue that he was not a beginner in LDS understanding. His first post was standard troll post with all the trappings of finding a 'lie'. But who knows...lets hope that the poster comes back.