Of course I hate the LDS church. Is that a problem?

[_Pahoran]

I'm not sure that word means what you think it means.

Of course it's not mandatory. Many choose not to belong.

And what is going to happen to those people, per Church doctrine? Are there consequences? Or is it basically the same as choosing not to volunteer for the Red Cross?

Something being voluntary doesn't mean it's stakes-free. I can voluntarily join the military, quit my scuba classes, or decide to leave the LDS faith. All of these are voluntary but also have consequences.

In what respects do you think that Church membership is similar to the things you listed?

Scratch,

The point you are rather maladroitly trying to conceal (although your ineptitude usually seems to pass the equally inept level of scrutiny you usually get around here) is that there are consequences only if you accept the Church's truth claims in the first place. If you don't believe the doctrine, then you could simply walk away. (It would probably be far healthier than this continuing obsession you have.) To those who do believe the doctrine, membership in the Church remains voluntary; it's just something we want very much and value very highly.

But thank you for demonstrating, yet again, that apostates are incompetent and unqualified to pose as "experts" on the faith they have departed. You simply have no idea how believing Latter-day Saints view the Church, do you?

Regards,
Pahoran

[_Ceeboo]

Hey Pahoran,

Good to see you hitting the letter keys around these parts. Hope all is well with you.

membership in the Church remains voluntary; it's just something we want very much and value very highly.

Regards,
Pahoran

If I may ask,

What is it, exactly, that you "want very much"? (For clarity, I am being serious)

Thanks and peace,
Ceeboo

[_Simon Belmont]

I was raised in the church, but I suppose I had the option of running away to avoid the brainwashing.

There was no "brainwashing" unless, of course, you think the universities I voluntarily attended also brainwashed me. Hell, you're being brainwashed right now by your definition.

It must all be one giant conspiracy, right?

Mormon culture was responsible for it Simian. It's unfortunate, but that's LDS culture for you.

And this is the root of the problem. Your engagement failed. That is sad, and I am sorry about it. It happens, though, like many unfortunate events in life. It isn't the church's fault. It probably isn't anyone's fault.

For you to blame an organization in which your voluntarily took part is not only deeply unfair, it's immature.

I think hatred is fine. It sure makes Mormons angry, eh Simian? that's enough of a justification for it

How inhuman.

Grow up.

What constitutes a voluntary organization is itself under dispute. You are ignoring everything I say.

It is not under dispute. A voluntary organization is one in which its members can choose or choose not to participate in -- like the LDS Church.

Didn't you hear? The Mormon church doesn't treat women like adults.

I know you're angry at your former fiancée. Take it out on him, though, leave the church out of your personal malice. My wife holds more responsibility in our ward than I do -- much more.

They can't even hold meetings of their cute little organization in church buildings unless a qualified male priesthood holder is there in the building.

And here you have proven that you know nothing about the church which you attack.

[_Joseph]

"And now, if it's all the same to you, I will continue to refer to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as The Church of Jesus Christ, in the hope that eventually even you might be able to figure out which church I'm talking about."
***********************************

It is not 'all the same' to many of us. The Church of Jesus Christ as well as The Church of Christ are the legal names of other churches.
Why you insist on trying to steal their names is not understandable other than the l-sinc habit of stealing whatever possible whenever possible. It makes you thieves, nothing else.

[_Simon Belmont]

It is not 'all the same' to many of us. The Church of Jesus Christ [...] are the legal names of other churches.

CFR

And learn to use the quote feature, dumbass.

[_malaise]

I'll respond to simian later, but I was just struck by a closing thought. Even if joining the church is voluntary, if the Mormons are right we are punished for not living in accordance with their rules. Sky daddy will punish homosexuals (who harm no one), people who don't kiss his ass, and lots of other innocent people. So in a sense the church is merely part of a more coercive system (if the Mormons are right).

[_Joseph]

Google it simone.

Remember, The Church of Christ is a name l-dsinc gave up on a long time ago and the current name is not the name given in the Doctrine and Covenants by Jesus himself.

Why was it changed?

[_Doctor Scratch]

Scratch,

The point you are rather maladroitly trying to conceal (although your ineptitude usually seems to pass the equally inept level of scrutiny you usually get around here) is that there are consequences only if you accept the Church's truth claims in the first place.

No, that's not quite it (though that's a part of what I'm getting at). My point in the first place was simply that it's very, very bizarre to characterize LDS membership as "voluntary." Perhaps it is in a very loose, technical sense, but but is it really an accurate description of the way that most Latter-day Saints (or even apostates or never-Mos, for that matter) regard membership? I don't think so.

If you don't believe the doctrine, then you could simply walk away.

You think that leaving/abandoning the Church is a "simple" matter? I never would have guessed.

To those who do believe the doctrine, membership in the Church remains voluntary; it's just something we want very much and value very highly.

This is a bit more in line with what I was originally asking. To go back to that: What do you think will happen to you if you decide to cease "volunteering"? Does that in any way feel like a viable "choice" to you?

[_Pahoran]

Scratch,

The point you are rather maladroitly trying to conceal (although your ineptitude usually seems to pass the equally inept level of scrutiny you usually get around here) is that there are consequences only if you accept the Church's truth claims in the first place.

No, that's not quite it (though that's a part of what I'm getting at). My point in the first place was simply that it's very, very bizarre to characterize LDS membership as "voluntary."

Ah. So normal English usage is "very, very bizarre" to you.

Got it.

Regards,
Pahoran

[_Simon Belmont]

I'll respond to simian later, but I was just struck by a closing thought. Even if joining the church is voluntary, if the Mormons are right we are punished for not living in accordance with their rules. Sky daddy will punish homosexuals (who harm no one), people who don't kiss his ass, and lots of other innocent people. So in a sense the church is merely part of a more coercive system (if the Mormons are right).

I do not know what church you thought you were a member of, but my church, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is absolutely nothing like you describe here. So, the church you hate, apparently, is not The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.