If Satan wrote the Book of Mormon...

[_SteelHead]

Ray,
you are the one engaged in the circular logic of quoting from the book in question to prove that it is what it says it is, and you accuse me of being dumbed down?

Gr33n stated that Satan can not testify of Christ. If Mark 5:7 is not a declaration of Jesus' divinity by Satan, then what is it?

As to whether or not I was ever a Mormon........ I still have a current temple recommend in my pocket. Is that sufficient?

Using Moroni 7 as a yardstick is interesting.

The Catholic Church teaches that Jesus is the Christ and does lots of good charity work, has a system of hospitals, etc and yet McConkie taught that it is the "Great and abominable whore of all the Earth".

The LDS church is spending billions on a mall instead of giving it to the poor. Is this good or evil?

The Book of Mormon itself has been an instrument of contention, that splits and divides families.

Perhaps the world is not quite so binary as Moroni 7 would suggest? And so, we can throw it out as an evidence for this discussion as it has been proven not to be "absolute" (your words) and hence unreliable.


ab·so·lute (bs-lt, bs-lt)
adj.
1. Perfect in quality or nature; complete.
2. Not mixed; pure. See Synonyms at pure.
3.
a. Not limited by restrictions or exceptions; unconditional: absolute trust.
b. Unqualified in extent or degree; total: absolute silence. See Usage Note at infinite.
4. Unconstrained by constitutional or other provisions: an absolute ruler.
5. Not to be doubted or questioned; positive: absolute proof.
6. Grammar
a. Of, relating to, or being a word, phrase, or construction that is isolated syntactically from the rest of a sentence, as the referee having finally arrived in The referee having finally arrived, the game began.
b. Of, relating to, or being a transitive verb when its object is implied but not stated. For example, inspires in We have a teacher who inspires is an absolute verb.
c. Of, relating to, or being an adjective or pronoun that stands alone when the noun it modifies is being implied but not stated. For example, in Theirs were the best, theirs is an absolute pronoun and best is an absolute adjective.
7. Physics
a. Relating to measurements or units of measurement derived from fundamental units of length, mass, and time.
b. Relating to absolute temperature.
8. Law Complete and unconditional; final.
n.
1. Something that is absolute.
2. Absolute Philosophy
a. Something regarded as the ultimate basis of all thought and being. Used with the.
b. Something regarded as independent of and unrelated to anything else.

If you truly feel this board is evil.....

Moro. 10:30 And again I would exhort you that ye would come unto Christ, and lay hold upon every good gift, and touch not the evil gift, nor the unclean thing.

Then why are you still here?

[_DarkHelmet]

Actually, I am pointing out that your scripture reference is taking a very simplistic view of things. It's almost like you didn't read my post other than the part that referenced genocide. Hmmm.

What does an "evil man" appear as? What are his qualities? the very first verse you cite tells us that an "evil man" cannot do "good."

I would like to know what that means. Do you know what it means?

It is overly simplistic. An evil man cannot do good? That's total BS. It's black and white thinking. Evil people compartmentalize. Nobody is 100% pure evil. What's the definition of "good"? I'm sure Hitler did plenty of "good" things for his country and his fellow Germans while also plotting evil acts for the rest of the world. There are degrees of evil. And even the most evil people will do good things now and then.

[_Drifting]

Actually, I am pointing out that your scripture reference is taking a very simplistic view of things. It's almost like you didn't read my post other than the part that referenced genocide. Hmmm.

What does an "evil man" appear as? What are his qualities? the very first verse you cite tells us that an "evil man" cannot do "good."

I would like to know what that means. Do you know what it means?

It is overly simplistic. An evil man cannot do good? That's total BS. It's black and white thinking. Evil people compartmentalize. Nobody is 100% pure evil. What's the definition of "good"? I'm sure Hitler did plenty of "good" things for his country and his fellow Germans while also plotting evil acts for the rest of the world. There are degrees of evil. And even the most evil people will do good things now and then.

When Nephi murdered Laban in cold blood was that good or evil?
Was God being good or evil when he tricked Abraham into thinking he had to murder his son?

When Mormon's were instructed to collaberate with Hitler was that good people doing good, good people doing evil, evil people doing good or evil people doing evil?

[_SteelHead]

That is one of the key issues with Moroni 7 it creates a false and cryptic dichotomy of an unparalleled magnitude.

If a complete mass murderer kills millions and yet does it to promote the name of Christ, by Moroni 7, was he good or evil?

"Only a Sith deals in absolutes" is self contradictory, being itself an absolute.

[_MCB]

Talking about Uranus, here is something someone wrote a long time ago about Mormonism and related heresies;

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103.htm

As we all can agree, there is nothing new about Mormonism.

[_DarkHelmet]

Satan does not testify of Christ.

No, but Uranus does.

I visited Uranus once. It's a real crap hole.

[_just me]

It seems to be boiling down to every human being evil and incapable of doing good.

Is that what you read from 1 Corinthians 13?

Can you elaborate?

by the way, I think you're one of the more reasonable posters here. Spurven is beyond redemption :)

Oops, I missed this post. I think we posted at the same time.

That is what I get from your Moroni 7. I went and read just about the whole thing along with clicking the nice little word links to get more clarification on the words "good" and "evil." After doing so I am conviced that what it is saying is that no human is capable of being/doing good.

The contradiction contained within these scriptures is that on the one hand it is claimed that "by their fruits you will know them" and that WORKS basically show where our heart is or we can be judged by them.

5 For I remember the word of God which saith by their works ye shall know them; for if their works be good, then they are good also.

On the other hand we are told that people can pray, donate, and do all manner of GOOD WORKS but still be EVIL because they didn't have "charity" or "real intent."
This is a contradiction.

Look at this:

3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the apoor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

If someone gives all they have even unto their very LIFE it is still counted for EVIL if they don't have "charity." That makes no sense.

I also have a problem with the fact ANYTHING and EVERYTHING "God" asks people to do is "good." People claim "God" told them to do nasty, disgusting stuff all the time. All the time. So, people write down in a book that their god told them to commit genocide (which there is no archaeological evidence of ever happening, by the way) and we are just supposed to believe that God commands genocide, therefore genocide, in this case, is "good." The same goes for Laban and Nephi.

Let's look at this passage:

6 For behold, God hath said a man being evil cannot do that which is good; for if he offereth a gift, or prayeth unto God, except he shall do it with real intent it profiteth him nothing.
7 For behold, it is not counted unto him for righteousness.

It seems to be saying here that an "evil man" can do good works, but because he is evil or doesn't have "real intent" they DON'T count. How can any human ever live up to this standard?

12 Wherefore, all things which are good cometh of God; and that which is evil cometh of the devil; for the devil is an enemy unto God, and fighteth against him continually, and inviteth and enticeth to sin, and to do that which is evil continually.
13 But behold, that which is of God inviteth and enticeth to do good continually; wherefore, every thing which inviteth and enticeth to do good, and to love God, and to serve him, is inspired of God.

What does this even mean? It sounds like it is saying that all good comes from God...but remember that if an evil person PRAYS it is not good and is counted for evil. ??? How does that even make sense?

This passage is implying that you are either all good or all evil. Those who sin do so on a constant basis.

But, maybe, just maybe, the key is at the end here. The only thing that is good is to serve and love god. So, anyone who doesn't believe in this brand of god is incapable of doing or being good. Everything they do, even "good works," are actually counted for evil and ignored by god.

More nuggets from Moroni:

14 Wherefore, take heed, my beloved brethren, that ye do not judge that which is evil to be of God, or that which is good and of God to be of the devil.

Here we are issued a warning not to think evil comes from God and not to think good comes from the devil. How on earth can we tell? Is genocide "good" or is "praying without real intent" evil? That is what the scriptures tell us. However, that is not inuitive.

15 For behold, my brethren, it is given unto you to judge, that ye may know good from evil; and the way to judge is as plain, that ye may know with a perfect knowledge, as the daylight is from the dark night.

Here we are promised that it will be EASY and PLAIN to us what is good and what is evil. We are to judge according to this easy method given us.

16 For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God.

Ok, so the LoC is given to every human that they might now good from evil and know it intuitively and as night and day. They will have a "perfect knowledge" of good and evil using this method.

Well, looking at history there doesn't seem to be a firm pattern of "good" and "evil" that we can fall back on. Killing people of your own tribe has typically been seen as wrong. Killing those outside of your tribe has been employed frequently. Infantacide has been used as a valid method of population control by many ancient cultures...today we are horrified by it and think it evil.

So, what exactly are these night/day, black/white good and evil works that every human knows through the Light of Christ? That is what I want to know. I also want to know why it isn't as obvious to me as it is supposed to be given what is claimed in Moroni 7.

OMG, I just thought of something else. Adam and Eve were not born with the LoC...knowledge of good and evil. Eating the fruit was what gave them the Light of Christ. Strange.

[_Wisdom Seeker]

Satan does not testify of Christ. The Book of Mormon testifies of Christ. Therefore Satan didn't write it.

I consulted with Satan about this and he stated that he did not sign a NDA or a non-compete agreement so he is free to say and do anything. He said he will continue to abide by the 99 truths to 1 lie arrangement as long as the other side continues with their 99 lies to 1 truth formula.

[_Buffalo]

Satan does not testify of Christ. The Book of Mormon testifies of Christ. Therefore Satan didn't write it.

I consulted with Satan about this and he stated that he did not sign a NDA or a non-compete agreement so he is free to say and do anything. He said he will continue to abide by the 99 truths to 1 lie arrangement as long as the other side continues with their 99 lies to 1 truth formula.

I was just thinking about this the other day. In church, someone said, "Satan will tell 99 truths just to tell one lie." I thought, "whereas the church will tell 99 lies just to tell one 'truth.'"

[_Themis]

Life does not really contain these kinds of absolutes.

Nor does the Book of Mormon.

Unfortunately you have already demonstrated that it does. :)