Questions for Brian H

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_Hades
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Re: Questions for Brian H

Post by _Hades »

Hoops wrote:The criticism of BrianH is, indeed, rich. Around here, one is normally praised for any disgusting, vile, condescending, pugnacious, filthy, and repugnant post as it is the height of free speech. Yet here comes BrianH, with some hard questions couched in much milder terms and suddenly you have standards?

Amazing.

It's like family. In a family I can say whatever mean thing I want to another member of the family, but if an outsider comes in and tries it, I'm likely to go upside their head. They might even be going after a family member I don't particularly like, but they are going after family.

BrianH comes in as an outsider and goes after everyone. As has been pointed out, he doesn't even know the players. It seems he doesn't care, either. It makes him look like an ass who doesn't care at all and it irritates all of us.
I'm the apostate your bishop warned you about.
_Corpsegrinder
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Re: Questions for Brian H

Post by _Corpsegrinder »

Hoops wrote:...Mcism...


Mcism?
_Hoops
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Re: Questions for Brian H

Post by _Hoops »

Corpsegrinder wrote:
Hoops wrote:...Mcism...


Mcism?

Mainstream Christianity.
_LDSToronto
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Re: Questions for Brian H

Post by _LDSToronto »

Hoops wrote:
But it becomes obvious that he is here to yell and make noise under the guise of rational debate.


Great. Since this is a common enough occurence here I'll be waiting for your criticism of the atheist/humanist/agnostics/ who do the same. I wonder how long I will have to wait.


Hoops, calm down. I'm not taking Brian on because of his beliefs. I'm taking him on because he is calling Mormon's mindless and dim-witted. As I mentioned before, I think it's perfectly acceptable to be critical of LDS theology, history, and culture; I think it's reprehensible to degrade people because of belief. When I see that happening, I speak up.

Hoops wrote:
Plus, as others have mentioned, he rejects faithful argumentation based on LDS theology but maintains that his faith in Jesus Christ is sound and rational.
So what? What's your point?


My point is that Brian calls people dim and mindless for suggesting Joseph Smith may have been a seer. Yet he claims to believe in supernatural gifts. I suppose I could call him dim and mindless for believing in supernatural gifts, but I don't feel that way about people. I think there are perfectly valid reasons for rejecting the notion of supernatural gifts, but I don't reject that notion for Evangelicals and Catholics, but allow them for Mormons and Pentecostals.

I know you are reasonable, Hoops, and can see why this is wrong.
Hoops wrote:
Very strange. I predict he will tire of this place soon.

One could hardly imagine why.


Hoops, if you feel Brian has been reasonable and hospitable during his short time here, that's an opinion I'll have to disagree with.

H.
"Others cannot endure their own littleness unless they can translate it into meaningfulness on the largest possible level."
~ Ernest Becker
"Whether you think of it as heavenly or as earthly, if you love life immortality is no consolation for death."
~ Simone de Beauvoir
_Jersey Girl
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Re: Questions for Brian H

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Image
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
_Blixa
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Re: Questions for Brian H

Post by _Blixa »

RockSlider wrote:I read through the threads … after the gulf of mindless threads that the likes of stem, why me, etc. continually drag us into over the last year, it was a nice change to see an attempt at some discussion.

I was very impressed with LDSToronto's handling of the Book of Abraham thread, as well as BC and others. Many of the response were focused, polite, informational etc. and yet each is turn was summarily dismissed by Brian, always with very snarky personal attacks and obviously zero thought given to the "answers" that he was demanding.

Hoops, I'm not seeing what your suggesting, the dialog seemed an improvement and the abrasive new comer was actually handled quite nicely. I guess I need to look it over again?

Liz noted the unique, once in a life time, unification of defensiveness from all corners.

It was not the hypocrisy that put me off, or his position, or what/how he said it … but his mindless grenade attack of any/all in sight, with obviously zero interest in the positions of those he dropped his bomb on.


Exactly. And this guy refused to acknowledge that most of those who were responding him weren't even Mormon, though he had been told that over and over.

And Hoops, if I miss someone else acting dickishly, its usually because I've got them on ignore.
From the Ernest L. Wilkinson Diaries: "ELW dreams he's spattered w/ grease. Hundreds steal his greasy pants."
_LDSToronto
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Re: Questions for Brian H

Post by _LDSToronto »

bumpity bump bump bump
"Others cannot endure their own littleness unless they can translate it into meaningfulness on the largest possible level."
~ Ernest Becker
"Whether you think of it as heavenly or as earthly, if you love life immortality is no consolation for death."
~ Simone de Beauvoir
_Yoda

Re: Questions for Brian H

Post by _Yoda »

So, Brian? Care to answer the questions of the OP?

What is it that generated an interest for you in debating Mormon Church principles in the first place?

The reason that most of us are interested is that all of us, whether we are members, ex-members, or non-members, have a specific tie to the Mormon Church in some sense. That is the thing which has basically drawn us together into a community.

What is your tie?
_Chap
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Re: Questions for Brian H

Post by _Chap »

In a novel by Samuel Butler, 'The Way of All Flesh', the young Ernest Pontifex has just lost his faith in Christianity, and is wondering what to do about it:

And how should he best persuade his fellow-countrymen to leave off
believing in this supernatural element? Looking at the matter from a
practical point of view he thought the Archbishop of Canterbury afforded
the most promising key to the situation. It lay between him and the
Pope. The Pope was perhaps best in theory, but in practice the
Archbishop of Canterbury would do sufficiently well. If he could only
manage to sprinkle a pinch of salt, as it were, on the Archbishop's tail,
he might convert the whole Church of England to free thought by a _coup
de main_. There must be an amount of cogency which even an Archbishop--an
Archbishop whose perceptions had never been quickened by imprisonment for
assault--would not be able to withstand. When brought face to face with
the facts, as he, Ernest, could arrange them; his Grace would have no
resource but to admit them; being an honourable man he would at once
resign his Archbishopric, and Christianity would become extinct in
England within a few months' time. This, at any rate, was how things
ought to be. But all the time Ernest had no confidence in the
Archbishop's not hopping off just as the pinch was about to fall on him,
and this seemed so unfair that his blood boiled at the thought of it. If
this was to be so, he must try if he could not fix him by the judicious
use of bird-lime or a snare, or throw the salt on his tail from an
ambuscade.


I think that (for the last thirty years forsooth!) BrianH may entertain a similar fantasy about Mormonism. If only he can demonstrate the falsity of its doctrines clearly and publicly enough, the First Presidency will resign, and the CoJCoLDs will just wither away in a matter of months.

But sadly, it has never happened, and it never will (though how BrianH's hopes must have risen when he discovered the Internet!). if people stopped believing in religions just because someone had shown there was good evidence against their claims, nobody would believe in any religion, Christianity included.

So why does BrianH spend his time in this lonely crusade ... ? He does not even seem to find Mormonism interesting, let alone amusing.
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
_Jason Bourne
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Re: Questions for Brian H

Post by _Jason Bourne »

Hoops wrote:
Lots of people have studied LDS alongside Mcism and have found LDS wanting. Others have found MCism wanting. Still others have found both wanting. I'm continuously amazed at how folks interpret this - it's generally this: I'm right and you're stupid.


This is very profound. Really.
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