Why did Brigham Young believe Adam was God?

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_consiglieri
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Re: Why did Brigham Young believe Adam was God?

Post by _consiglieri »

bcspace wrote:Not in any doctrinal work I'll warrant.


These ideas are "doctrine," whether you agree with them or not.

If they were published in any work, it was by definition a "doctrinal work."

Just because something is "doctrine" does not mean it is "true."

Nor does it mean somebody else will not publish "doctrine" that contradicts.

This, in a chestnutshell, is your problem with going to absurd lengths to define (and then defend) "doctrine."

All the Best!

--Consiglieri
You prove yourself of the devil and anti-mormon every word you utter, because only the devil perverts facts to make their case.--ldsfaqs (6-24-13)
_consiglieri
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Re: Why did Brigham Young believe Adam was God?

Post by _consiglieri »

zeezrom wrote:consig,

Fascinating! Thanks.

Zee.


You are super welcome, Zee.

I almost didn't see you there, squeaking in between SteelHead and BCSpace like that.

I find the Adam-God Theory a fascinating subject.

Part of that fascination involves what contortions Mormons will go through to avoid the plain meaning of what he said. (See, BCSpace)

I mean, even after years of denial, Elder McConkie finally admitted Brigham Young taught it.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri
You prove yourself of the devil and anti-mormon every word you utter, because only the devil perverts facts to make their case.--ldsfaqs (6-24-13)
_SteelHead
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Re: Why did Brigham Young believe Adam was God?

Post by _SteelHead »

Notably they may not be considered doctrine vis a vis bc's current definition of doctrine, but was it considered doctrine by BY and the saints? Enough so to make it into the temple ceremony.

Does the modern definition of doctrine espoused by bc preclude any doctrine given prevoius to its (the press release on doctrine) issuance?

For guys who can't lead the church astray, they sure are oft at odds with each other.
It is better to be a warrior in a garden, than a gardener at war.

Some of us, on the other hand, actually prefer a religion that includes some type of correlation with reality.
~Bill Hamblin
_bcspace
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Re: Why did Brigham Young believe Adam was God?

Post by _bcspace »

This, in a nutshell (a chestnutshell, if you like) is the entire problem with your approach, BC. (And that of your mentor, Elden Watson.)


Sorry, never met him or spoke with him.

You are not interested in understanding what Brigham Young actually taught.

You want to make Brigham Young fit your procrustean bed of official LDS doctrine.

If Brigham Young said something that conflicts with your idea of doctrine, it couldn't be what he actually meant. This is the crux of your argument.


Let me know when you are able to come up with any actual examples.

When you begin with the premise that Brigham Young meant what he said and said what he meant, regardless of what "doctrines" you feel it impacts, his views in this regard are quite plain and consistent over the course of twenty-five years.

In fact, Brigham's views were so plain and consistent that he almost had to oust Orson Pratt from the Quorum of the Twelve for taking public issue with them. A "conflict in the quorum" that never would have happened if people in Brigham's day understood him to be teaching what you claim he taught.


I agree completely and this is the course I have taken. When one take BY at his word, looking at ALL of his word, one cannot justify the notion of Adam God. I notice that you;ve not been able to come up with anything to explain BY's statements that conflict with Adam God whereas Adam Sr/Jr is the only theory so far that has them in harmony and there's not even any guesswork or assumptions, there is only taking BY at his word.

Not in any doctrinal work I'll warrant.
These ideas are "doctrine," whether you agree with them or not.

If they were published in any work, it was by definition a "doctrinal work."


Doesn't seem like BY would agree with here but rather would prefer a chance to look over his words before declaring them official.

This, in a chestnutshell, is your problem with going to absurd lengths to define (and then defend) "doctrine."


All I've had to do is take the Church at it's word as far as the definition of doctrine is concerned. The only lengths that have to be trod is when one tries to add or subtract to make their chestnuts fit. That's why it's been so easy for me. I simply stay within what the Church itself has stated since at least 1835 (D&C 107). I certainly entertain thoughts oustide those bounds, but I am very clear to state when I have crossed them and NEVER teach them for doctrine.

Part of that fascination involves what contortions Mormons will go through to avoid the plain meaning of what he said. (See, BCSpace)


And what contortions would those be? Notice that all consig does is tell you what you want to hear.
Machina Sublime
Satan's Plan Deconstructed.
Your Best Resource On Joseph Smith's Polygamy.
Conservatism is the Gospel of Christ and the Plan of Salvation in Action.
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_Droopy
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Re: Why did Brigham Young believe Adam was God?

Post by _Droopy »

Ignoring your trotting out of the lame "Adam Sr" misdirection, you do agree that it USED to be official doctrine, right? Published by the church and taught in the temple and all that?


Opining about something else you know nothing about, Bluff?

Don't answer that question.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

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_Buffalo
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Re: Why did Brigham Young believe Adam was God?

Post by _Buffalo »

Droopy wrote:
Ignoring your trotting out of the lame "Adam Sr" misdirection, you do agree that it USED to be official doctrine, right? Published by the church and taught in the temple and all that?


Opining about something else you know nothing about, Bluff?

Don't answer that question.


You didn't know that Adam/God was published in an official church publication and taught in the temple? I'm not surprised.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
_bcspace
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Re: Why did Brigham Young believe Adam was God?

Post by _bcspace »

You didn't know that Adam/God was published in an official church publication and taught in the temple? I'm not surprised.


Of course Buffalo is long on wind and short on references. I am familiar with the LAV. But since BY never taught Adam God, it's not there. Adam Sr/Jr might be there though.
Machina Sublime
Satan's Plan Deconstructed.
Your Best Resource On Joseph Smith's Polygamy.
Conservatism is the Gospel of Christ and the Plan of Salvation in Action.
The Degeneracy Of Progressivism.
_SteelHead
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Re: Why did Brigham Young believe Adam was God?

Post by _SteelHead »

Quibbling about the name of the doctrine is silly BC. It is known in the vernacular as Adam God. You understand what is meant, we all understand what is meant. A diversion to rename is naught but a diversion.
It is better to be a warrior in a garden, than a gardener at war.

Some of us, on the other hand, actually prefer a religion that includes some type of correlation with reality.
~Bill Hamblin
_bcspace
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Re: Why did Brigham Young believe Adam was God?

Post by _bcspace »

Quibbling about the name of the doctrine is silly BC. It is known in the vernacular as Adam God. You understand what is meant, we all understand what is meant. A diversion to rename is naught but a diversion.


I've not quibbled about the name but rather have merely distinguished between a now discredited hypothesis of what many have said what BY taught (Adam God) and what BY actually taught (Adam Sr/Jr). The name Adam Sr/Jr therefore does not distract, it simply identifies.
Machina Sublime
Satan's Plan Deconstructed.
Your Best Resource On Joseph Smith's Polygamy.
Conservatism is the Gospel of Christ and the Plan of Salvation in Action.
The Degeneracy Of Progressivism.
_SteelHead
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Re: Why did Brigham Young believe Adam was God?

Post by _SteelHead »

Only in your own opinion. I'm pretty sure it reads Adam is god in the quotes from BY and no where is there a Jr or a Sr, but feel free to keep proclaiming your hypothesis as fact.
It is better to be a warrior in a garden, than a gardener at war.

Some of us, on the other hand, actually prefer a religion that includes some type of correlation with reality.
~Bill Hamblin
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