Advice on the best way to deal with people like this?

[_Stormy Waters]

Well, then you fail to grasp what Mormonism is then. Prophets are NOT God. They only speak for God when God tells you they do; otherwise, they speak as any man and have all of their failings. Now I do agree that modern-day Mormon leaders should rightly acknowledge the racism that did exist and that those doctrines were not of God and were man-made and in error. But that is their problem, not mine. I have never accepted those doctrines were ever from God, nor do I know any member of the church today that would. Therefore, as I stated, Mormonism has nothing to do with racism and I don't care how many silly quotes you dig up stating that it was by so-and-so. It has nothing to do with Mormonism, just the racist bigot that said it.

So for all that time a race of people was denied ordinances that they needed to achieve salvation, year after year, prophet after prophet, but it wasn't God's will. If mistakes of this magnitude are possible, then what use are the prophets? If they can be dead wrong about something this important, what good are they?

[_Tobin]

So, the cursing of the Lamanites with a curse of blackness for their iniquity, as described in the Book of Mormon, is really not from God but from misguided men?
This is scripture. Joseph Smith claimed this scripture was of God. Therefore, one can reasonably conclude that the Mormon God saw blackness as a curse to be visited on the unrighteous.

Ah yes, because the Bible does not mention God cursing and marking people before? Hmmm?

Genesis 4:11 (KJV) And now [art] thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;
Genesis 4:12 (KJV) When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.
Genesis 4:13 (KJV)And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment [is] greater than I can bear.
Genesis 4:14 (KJV)Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, [that] every one that findeth me shall slay me.
Genesis 4:15 (KJV)And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.

I think the problem is, you don't really believe in the Bible either. If you did, then you'd believe that God created man. He then most certainly had a hand in creating each of the races of man as well.
And it really isn't about skin color that determines righteousness either. After all, it was a Lamanite (one of those people you claim was cursed by a racist God), who was called as a prophet to preach to the Nephites repentence.

Helaman 13:1 And now it came to pass in the eighty and sixth year, the Nephites did still remain in wickedness, yea, in great wickedness, while the Lamanites did observe strictly to keep the commandments of God, according to the law of Moses.
Helaman 13:2 And it came to pass that in this year there was one Samuel, a Lamanite, came into the land of Zarahemla, and began to preach unto the people. And it came to pass that he did preach, many days, repentance unto the people, and they did cast him out, and he was about to return to his own land.

[_Tobin]

Clearly you haven't read the Book of Mormon. It mentions Jerusalem as well. By your logic, it must be historically plausible then.

Zarahelma's latitude and longitude are: [fill in the blank]

That is a stupid question. Where were the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah? They are mentioned by the Bible as well. Oh wait, they were destroyed so we don't know. And so was the Nephite civilization.

[_Tobin]

So for all that time a race of people was denied ordinances that they needed to achieve salvation, year after year, prophet after prophet, but it wasn't God's will. If mistakes of this magnitude are possible, then what use are the prophets? If they can be dead wrong about something this important, what good are they?

There was an apostasy for 1700 years. You want to know how it starts? By people listening to men and not to God. It doesn't matter how fancy the title of a man is - prophet, king, pope, bishop. If something is evil or untrue, you are under no obligation to believe it.

[_zeezrom]

Hello,

I'm so glad to hear you are moving to Utah! What a great place to live. I hope you get chances to try skiing at Snowbird or Alta. Please tell me you will try the skiing. It is amazing. Also, there is no end to the outdoor recreation in the spring/summer/fall. The mountains around Salt Lake are heavenly. Visit them often and partake of God's wonders.

Also, you need to play often in the southern/central part of the state as well. Go to Arches, Zion, and Escalante. Take lots of pictures.

Wasatch Brewery makes great beer too. You need to try their Polygamy Porter.

Also, if you are leaning left, don't be afraid to make a stand. There is a lot of opportunity for a democrat to get involved in politics in Utah. There are so few of them, that you essentially get all the opportunities you could ever ask for. You will have a ball.

[_DrW]

That is a stupid question. Where were the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah? They are mentioned by the Bible as well. Oh wait, they were destroyed so we don't know. And so was the Nephite civilization.

Bad example. Turns out that archeologists do know where Sodom and Gomorrah were and have a very good handle on the approximate date and means of the destruction of these cities by fire from the sky.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/03/31/kofels_asteroid/

http://www.universetoday.com/13560/evidence-of-asteroid-impact-for-sodom-and-gomorrah/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-551010/Decoded-The-clay-tablet-tells-asteroid-destroyed-Sodom-5-000-years-ago.html

[_Tobin]

In short, Tobin is a cafeteria Mormon.

As all good Mormons should be. We should embrace what is true and discard everything that is not true. No Mormon is obligated to believe anything a Mormon prophet, or anyone else, has to say unless God also tells them it is true as well.

[_Buffalo]

That is a stupid question. Where were the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah? They are mentioned by the Bible as well. Oh wait, they were destroyed so we don't know. And so was the Nephite civilization.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodom,_Ontario

[_Themis]

Utah ohana,

Good and bad people exist in the church as well. Most I have known are very nice, so don't let the bad ones spoil it for you. I have never lived in Utah, but always liked it, though I wouldn't say it is better then many other areas. Personal choice I guess. If you are moving to Utah, being a member certainly has some advantages, so joining for social reasons can be beneficial. If you are joining because you believe it is claims about God, Book of Mormon , etc are true, that's fine as well, but remember you can always take your time, and never listen to those who would discourage a full evaluation of it from all sides. You can never fully understand the issue until you have information from the different sides or perspectives. Have fun

[_Tobin]

Bad example. Turns out that archeologists do know where Sodom and Gomorrah were and have a very good handle on the approximate date and means of the destruction of these cities by fire from the sky.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/03/31/kofels_asteroid/
http://www.universetoday.com/13560/evidence-of-asteroid-impact-for-sodom-and-gomorrah/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-551010/Decoded-The-clay-tablet-tells-asteroid-destroyed-Sodom-5-000-years-ago.html

Actually, it is you that should be a bit more careful. Sodom and Gomorrah - latitude and longitude please? [fill-in-the-blank]