Zion is gay leary but not gay stupid

[_just me]

What is the "feminine" that you sacrificed. Please enlighten us as to what constitutes "feminine" and "masculine."

I'd also like to know what that has to do with who you are sexually attracted to.

Intelligence is not created or made. It is light and truth. It is not sexual. We stepped out of the light of truth as independent organized spheres of existence. We were given the knowledge that pertained to our "assigned" sphere of existence. Human for us.

You have to realize that God did not come by way of the seeds. God cannot be a sexual being. That is the reality of who God is. The feminine side of God is manifested mostly in the Christ. He suffers in great agony to bring forth his seed conceived by his shed blood and sacrifice. He calls his chickens under his wings as a female hen to gather them to nurture them. Who can deny that God draws upon the feminine in the atonement? We are to be born of God.

God has included in a fullness of light and truth the feminine, his wisdom as it was called anciently when someone else realized this and of course that knowledge got polluted. I mean of course people have not been thinking about this at all in our day and time. We also had to a lesser degree according to our intelligence light and truth that could support sexual assignment to male or female. God required of us to be divided according to seed life requirements of sexual assignment. Basically he was dividing so as to conquer his enemy. Removing half of who we are weakens us that we can pose no threat to his kingdom.

Those who intended to threaten the kingdom of God were cast out. The natural man is always an enemy to God. Hence the gospel was designed to change the natural man and raise him up as the seed of God to a higher state of existence. The gospel is not sexual conception but spiritual. To God all things are spiritual and never is he carnal nor sensual. D&C 29.

That is God and once we sacrifice half of who we are we remain less than God is. Seems like asking too much. The Devil thought so and stepped off. In our seed/sexual assignment he commanded us to be so "assigned". Notice that is the same as when we were taken out of the light of truth and "assigned" (D&C 93) a specific sphere of existence.

I mean, what if we somehow knew that we should have been unicorns and not human? Should we act out as unicorns, is that what demons are doing manifesting as all sorts of contorted beings? Sorry, just having a bit of fun here.

God made us and has the right to assign us at will. If 1/3rd of all the hosts of heaven were so offended at losing half their intelligence would you not suppose that a great many more were just as offended but feared to rebel and would seek to continue anyway? Seems very likely. And so how would these secret agents finally be detected? The rejection of sexual assignment would manifest precisely as they do in this physical world.

We could project how many varied choices could alter our fate. If you kept a deep hatred of sexual assignment thinking that resisting this might preserve a fullness of intelligence for you to remain all you are and not have to sacrifice if you resisted, then perhaps it would manifest as hatred for the opposite sex. Nobody hates themselves, or do they, transgenders? hmm? This opens up lots of interesting scenarios. If someone harbored hatred for the existence of an opposite sex for billions of years up there, and when they get here promptly continue that hatred to some greater or lesser degree, sexual identity would follow accordingly. They reject an opposite sex and when the sex drive of the physical world manifests it will reject an opposite sex and what then are you left with? Sex happens.

How we responded to our sexual assignment determines much of our life here. We are the same person even though we forget the pre-existence. We are self-programmed there to act out here. So even if you did not choose in the pre-existence to be homosexual, your rejection of and resentment for sexual assignment that requires the loss of half of your native intelligence could manifest in homosexual behaviors here. Like rejecting A means you get B. Deal with it.

I apologize for the tease. I have spent forty years thinking on this level and it is asking a lot for your understanding. Call me crazy.

In all that you still did not answer my question. Perhaps I didn't word it clearly. What are the feminine traits that you fully rejected in order to be a heterosexual man?

You also seem to be confusing gender identity with sexual orientation. They are not the same thing.

[_lulu]

Ranting about fairness is born of ignorance and immaturity.

sig worthy

[_Shulem]

In all that you still did not answer my question. Perhaps I didn't word it clearly. What are the feminine traits that you fully rejected in order to be a heterosexual man?

You also seem to be confusing gender identity with sexual orientation. They are not the same thing.

You won't get anything of substance other than banter from Lion-boy. His brain is mush. His religious ideals are pinned upon the hopes that his jezzus will some day come back and kill all the fags just so he can feel valid in his self righteous delusions.

You might as well talk to a wall because the wall will say something inspirational before Lion-boy ever does. The man is a lost cause. He's a waste of space. He is taking up our air!

Paul O

[_Buffalo]

I see your sentiment as equal to that of all hypocrisy that fearfully seeks to finesse God into nifty boxes that man can buy and sell for money. Same violence. And for what its worth I think God hates the sophistry of hypocrisy more than crass vulgarity. Just sayin' You will never lead billions to destruction by inventing schemes that rob people of faith and salvation. Probably zilch.

Ranting about fairness is born of ignorance and immaturity.

Your god is apparently even worse than the God of the Book of Mormon!

12 Now it is better that a man should be judged of God than of man, for the judgments of God are always just, but the judgments of man are not always just.

Not according to Nightlion!

[_Kishkumen]

I expect that if understood properly my theology of sexual assignment relegates the faults in it to our own choice and prejudice. It does away with the notion that God made me this way.
Try and get people to take responsibility for anything. Sheesh!

The pre-existence is much more relevant than we know. Beside sexual identity there are many more choice laden consequences which follow us into this life. If race was a choice it would appear that Chinese was the all time favorite. Even in history and look at them now. Number one in everything, the richest and most powerful and scholastically the smartest. Wo is our doom.

Get me to Zion speedily, yea verily.

The problem remains. Your solution renders homosexuals theologically inferior to heterosexuals. You are saying, "given the choice to do the right thing by sacrificing some of your gender characteristics to the cause, you opted for the lesser choice, i.e. holding on to the other half of your gender, and so now you have to suffer the consequences." I see no reason to reach such a conclusion. Furthermore, since your solution looks so much like the "fence-sitters" theology regarding race, it appears to me not to be inspired. My respectful suggestion is that you ponder and pray on this more. This looks like a false revelation to me. No offense intended.

[_Nightlion]

In all that you still did not answer my question. Perhaps I didn't word it clearly. What are the feminine traits that you fully rejected in order to be a heterosexual man?

You also seem to be confusing gender identity with sexual orientation. They are not the same thing.

Perhaps if I remove the concept from the passion of gender and orientation it may help everyone realize the actual mechanics involved.

Let's say that after are born a spirit child of Adam and Eve(s) you got a billion years before you move on to earth and get born here. Knowing that the test of mortality will be having faith in Jesus Christ what would be the most prudent and diligent exercise you could apply to insure that you pass the test? It would be to rigorously hold uppermost in you mind with all you might mind and strength a love for God and for his son, Jesus Christ. A discipline that if genuine at heart would instill within you a love of God that would manifest in this life as a longing for righteousness and you would not rest until that end is met.

Okay, so, knowing that sexual orientation would depend upon your best effort to make your mind singularly male or female respectively you would be prudent and diligent to practice this orientation exhaustively until it is ingrained and imprinted upon your identity. Willfully you forsake the opposite diligently as it comes to mind and suppress one to favor the other. You are teaching yourself to be male or female accordingly. This would be wise. It would be seeking to obey and receive that which God has appointed unto you. It would answer to believing and trusting in God's intent to do good for you and not being fearful or unbelieving.

And you thought up in the pre-existence there was nothing to do.....

Nobody knew enough to nail me on how it is possible to sacrifice intelligence since it cannot be created or made.......how then can you give it up? Good question. By a diligent willful and practiced choice over time and kept at it with full purpose of heart and real intent and having faith in God that you can succeed and escape the calamity of entering life unskilled or rebellious and defiant of the will of God and his commandments. This is why freedom is required for the plan to fully take. It is the only by free will that we can purposely focus our self to aim at and hit the mark God has set for our happiness.

Now there is another side to this and that is the likelihood that many purposely want to keep vital and alive their full faculty of intelligence to have so much the advantage after the resurrection since they do not want exaltation anyway and realize it would be stupid to waste intelligence just to return to a sexless existence after they are raised up without eternal life.

Perhaps God smiles on these overwise in their own conceits and holds his breath for them in great empathy knowing how sadly they will suffer in confusion and vexing drama akin to the persecution of true saints, almost. Also a great possibility. I would favor this motive above the sheer hatred of an opposite sex. But to set themselves up to succeed in such a plan they would indeed have to program their heart, might, mind and strength to keep all that they can of all that they are. Ya know......I GOT TO BE MEEEEEEEEEEEE! I GOT TO BE MEEEEEEEEEE! lol

[_Nightlion]

The problem remains. Your solution renders homosexuals theologically inferior to heterosexuals. You are saying, "given the choice to do the right thing by sacrificing some of your gender characteristics to the cause, you opted for the lesser choice, i.e. holding on to the other half of your gender, and so now you have to suffer the consequences." I see no reason to reach such a conclusion. Furthermore, since your solution looks so much like the "fence-sitters" theology regarding race, it appears to me not to be inspired. My respectful suggestion is that you ponder and pray on this more. This looks like a false revelation to me. No offense intended.

And therefore by extension my theology renders those who valiantly program the heart, might, mind and strength to value the love of God above all else such that when cut loose in mortality they will find it again these are superior to those who don't. I fail to see the problem here.

Sexual differentiation is the law. It was appointed billions of what we call years before we ever got here. How is the prudence and diligence of one above another not superior?
Otherwise it sounds like, "Not one soul shall be lost, and surely I will do it, wherefore give me thine honor" ehh?

I do not hold that in the grand scheme of it all anyone is worth more than anyone else. Intelligence finds a way to prepare and practice and become precise and expert and thereby come off better than someone who has a different approach.

Let's just say in the pre-mortal realms everybody went their own way about getting here. I am assigning blame per choice and consequences accordingly. I don't see a fence here.
I get how pre-existing behaviors can affect mortal outcome is similar. How can that simple reality be denied?

[_just me]

Okay, so, knowing that sexual orientation would depend upon your best effort to make your mind singularly male or female respectively you would be prudent and diligent to practice this orientation exhaustively until it is ingrained and imprinted upon your identity. Willfully you forsake the opposite diligently as it comes to mind and suppress one to favor the other. You are teaching yourself to be male or female accordingly. This would be wise. It would be seeking to obey and receive that which God has appointed unto you. It would answer to believing and trusting in God's intent to do good for you and not being fearful or unbelieving.

You still haven't told me what these "female" traits or intelligence markers are that you had to reject to be "singularly male." I'd really like to know.

What is your answer to the intersex condition?

It is illogical that someone who "hates" the opposite sex is also holding on to that identity (their full intelligence). You might want to clear up that part of your answer.

[_Nightlion]

Okay, so, knowing that sexual orientation would depend upon your best effort to make your mind singularly male or female respectively you would be prudent and diligent to practice this orientation exhaustively until it is ingrained and imprinted upon your identity. Willfully you forsake the opposite diligently as it comes to mind and suppress one to favor the other. You are teaching yourself to be male or female accordingly. This would be wise. It would be seeking to obey and receive that which God has appointed unto you. It would answer to believing and trusting in God's intent to do good for you and not being fearful or unbelieving.

You still haven't told me what these "female" traits or intelligence markers are that you had to reject to be "singularly male." I'd really like to know.

What is your answer to the intersex condition?

It is illogical that someone who "hates" the opposite sex is also holding on to that identity (their full intelligence). You might want to clear up that part of your answer.

You really do not want to make sense of this. You want me to know specifically what female traits I suppressed in the Pre-existence? How can I know that? What I deduce is that an organized intelligence has a fullness of both even the same as God. God is never subject to seed body birth and did not have sexual assignment. He continues with a fullness of light and truth. Since we were sent into seed body birth it was prudent for us to round off our intelligence focused upon our assigned sex. The process was enigmatic perhaps more intuitive for females and logical with males. I am only guessing. But the premise is that we needed to get from a fullness of both to a prudent focus on one or the other lest confusion abound. We had lots of time to sort this out and watch our exalted parents for clues and reason from their example.

Could have been we had to go in and get tested from time to time to see where our balance was. Probably stared at the information rack and wondered what the heck was masturbation. (You know I am just kidding, right?) Perhaps the sneaky sneeks figured out how to use somebody else balance results to keep the heat off from the sex assignment police. (sirens blare in the distance)

It is clearly logical that if someone did not want to lose any of the fullness of his light and truth the threat is the existence of an opposite sex. Hence to despise the opposite sex is to resist assimilation and loss of your fullness. SEE?

[_Kishkumen]

And therefore by extension my theology renders those who valiantly program the heart, might, mind and strength to value the love of God above all else such that when cut loose in mortality they will find it again these are superior to those who don't. I fail to see the problem here.

Only if one begins with the assumptions you start with does this gender issue have anything to do with showing love to God. Nothing indicates that people made choices to be born a particular gender, race, or what have you outside of outmoded LDS theology. Nothing. You also seem to be saying that people could still choose to change. If they chose once, why not choose now, right?

Wrong. For some people there is no choice. They have an overwhelming attraction to the same gender. They can't choose to be heterosexual and they never could. Things actually do happen to us that we did not choose. I do not understand this predilection in Mormon thought for taking a lower status and theologizing that as the person's own fault simply so that those of a higher status can pat themselves on the back.

What the world needs is not some BS "just so story" about why the gays are the gays but equal treatment for all. If anything should kindle the wrath of a just God, it is unfairness covered up and justified by crappy myths.