Yesterday in Church . . .

[_Cicero]

Why me, what Europeans are you talking about exactly? It's a fairly diverse continent (heck, there is no universally accepted definition of what "Europe" even is . . .)

Chap: In my experience (I lived and worked in Europe for a time), the vast majority of the people joining the Church in Europe these days are immigrants from Africa or Latin America.

[_why me]

Speaking as a European, living in Europe as part of an active European Mormon family, European Ward and European Stake. I can categorically state that yes, Europeans equate wealth with righteousness within the Church. What I mean is that the wealthy members are viewed as more righteous by those with more meagre means.

Of course this means Why Me is talking out of his ass....

Is this a joke? What europe do you live in? Europe is in crisis and very few have such wealth. The facts of life in europe contradict your statement since with the EU crisis people have lost jobs, wealth, family, home etc. And what is wealth? a job? a home? a car? Certainly not millions.

Lets get real here.

[_why me]

Why me, what Europeans are you talking about exactly? It's a fairly diverse continent (heck, there is no universally accepted definition of what "Europe" even is . . .)

Spain, Italy, Poland, Portugal, Ireland, France, Sweden, Finland, Belgium, Germany etc...most of europe is suffering from the economic downturn. Here is the deal: the Book of Mormon is dealing with a certain people who had wealth and suffered because of it. It is for that time and place. Today, since the economy goes up and down very few people equate righteousness with huge wealth. In fact, just the opposite. Now if wealth means a job, a home, a family, well, that may be different. But very few members see things set in stone too.

[_ldsfaqs]

Speaking as a European, living in Europe as part of an active European Mormon family, European Ward and European Stake. I can categorically state that yes, Europeans equate wealth with righteousness within the Church. What I mean is that the wealthy members are viewed as more righteous by those with more meagre means.

Of course this means Why Me is talking out of his ass....

Is this a joke? What europe do you live in? Europe is in crisis and very few have such wealth. The facts of life in europe contradict your statement since with the EU crisis people have lost jobs, wealth, family, home etc. And what is wealth? a job? a home? a car? Certainly not millions.

Lets get real here.

Wanna hear a sad STAT....???

The top 10 richest/largest whatever company's in Europe are company's that have been around a 100 years or something. In other words, really old company's are the ONLY major wealth generator's in Europe.

Interesting stat especially given that Socialism is so popular there especially these days. Socialism doesn't "spread the wealth around" as much as people think. Only freedom and capitalism does. With socialism, wealth is extremely watered down and only concentrated with a "few" power elites. Capitalism allows anyone with the drive, an idea and/or product to get wealthy. And so the "wealth spreads" much greater than socialism or anything else is able to do.

[_Drifting]

Speaking as a European, living in Europe as part of an active European Mormon family, European Ward and European Stake. I can categorically state that yes, Europeans equate wealth with righteousness within the Church. What I mean is that the wealthy members are viewed as more righteous by those with more meagre means.

Of course this means Why Me is talking out of his ass....

Is this a joke? What europe do you live in? Europe is in crisis and very few have such wealth. The facts of life in europe contradict your statement since with the EU crisis people have lost jobs, wealth, family, home etc. And what is wealth? a job? a home? a car? Certainly not millions.

Lets get real here.

Wanna hear a sad STAT....???

The top 10 richest/largest whatever company's in Europe are company's that have been around a 100 years or something. In other words, really old company's are the ONLY major wealth generator's in Europe.

Interesting stat especially given that Socialism is so popular there especially these days. Socialism doesn't "spread the wealth around" as much as people think. Only freedom and capitalism does. With socialism, wealth is extremely watered down and only concentrated with a "few" power elites. Capitalism allows anyone with the drive, an idea and/or product to get wealthy. And so the "wealth spreads" much greater than socialism or anything else is able to do.

The economy of Europe comprises more than 731 million people in 48 different states.[2] Like other continents, the wealth of Europe's states varies, although the poorest are well above the poorest states of other continents in terms of GDP and living standards. The difference in wealth across Europe can be seen in a rough East-West divide. Whilst some European states have high GDPs and living standards (Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Monaco, Andorra, Norway, Sweden, the Netherlands, Switzerland), many European economies are still developing (Moldova, Turkey, Ukraine, Hungary, Czech Republic or Poland).
Throughout this article "Europe" and derivatives of the word are taken to include selected states whose territory is only partly in Europe – such as Turkey (depending on a definition - whole country or just Thrace), Azerbaijan (Caucasus), and the Russian Federation (its European part to Ural Mountains) – and states that are geographically in Asia, bordering Europe and culturally adherent to the continent – such as Armenia, Georgia, and Cyprus.
Europe in 2010 had a nominal GDP of $19.920 trillion[1] (32.4% of the World). Europe's largest national economy is that of Germany, which ranks fourth globally in nominal GDP, and fifth in purchasing power parity (PPP) GDP;[3] followed by France, ranking fifth globally in nominal GDP, followed by the United Kingdom, ranking sixth globally in nominal GDP, followed by Italy, which ranks seventh globally in nominal GDP, then by Russia ranking tenth globally in nominal GDP.[4]
These 5 countries are all ranking in the world's top 10, therefore European economies account for half of the 10 wealthiest ones. The end of World War II has since brought European countries closer together, culminating in the formation of the European Union (EU) and in 1999, the introduction of a unified currency – the euro. European Union as a whole is, by far, the wealthiest and largest economy in the world, topping the US by more than 2.000 billions at a time of great economic slowdown– see List of countries by GDP. In 2009 Europe remained the world's wealthiest region. Its $32,7 trillion in assets under management represented more than one-third of the world’s wealth. Unlike North America ($29,3 trillion) it was one of few regions where wealth surpassed its precrisis year-end peak.[5]
Of the top 500 largest corporations measured by revenue (Fortune Global 500 in 2010), 184 have their headquarters in Europe. 161 are located in the EU, 15 in Switzerland, 6 in Russia, 1 in Turkey, 1 in Norway.[6]
The average standard of living in Western Europe is very high. As noted by Manuel Castells
“The bulk of the population in Western Europe still enjoys the highest living standards in the world, and in the world’s history.”[7]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Europe

[_Philidel]

Speaking as a European, living in Europe as part of an active European Mormon family, European Ward and European Stake. I can categorically state that yes, Europeans equate wealth with righteousness within the Church. What I mean is that the wealthy members are viewed as more righteous by those with more meagre means.

Of course this means Why Me is talking out of his ass....

Is this a joke? What europe do you live in? Europe is in crisis and very few have such wealth. The facts of life in europe contradict your statement since with the EU crisis people have lost jobs, wealth, family, home etc. And what is wealth? a job? a home? a car? Certainly not millions.

Lets get real here.

The last time you were here was when?

Unfortunately there are troubled states in Europe. However, caught up in Schadenfreude as they are, American commentators are frequently not seeing the comfort in which many, many Europeans are living.

In large part, you, why me, are speaking from ignorance.

[_Philidel]

Speaking as a European, living in Europe as part of an active European Mormon family, European Ward and European Stake. I can categorically state that yes, Europeans equate wealth with righteousness within the Church. What I mean is that the wealthy members are viewed as more righteous by those with more meagre means.

Of course this means Why Me is talking out of his ass....

Is this a joke? What europe do you live in? Europe is in crisis and very few have such wealth. The facts of life in europe contradict your statement since with the EU crisis people have lost jobs, wealth, family, home etc. And what is wealth? a job? a home? a car? Certainly not millions.

Lets get real here.

The last time you were here was when?

Unfortunately there are troubled states in Europe. However, caught up in Schadenfreude as they are, American commentators are frequently not seeing the comfort in which many, many Europeans are living.

In large part, you, why me, are speaking from ignorance.

[_why me]

In large part, you, why me, are speaking from ignorance.

Oh...okay...we hear a great deal about Poland and their wonderful economy but what about the downside?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/ap ... inequality

I think that this says it all since Poland is often held up as a great example of success in the EU. And Spain? And Ireland? And Britian? And Finland? And France? etc. All showing greater pockets of poverty. Sorry, but european Mormons generally do not equate righteous with material prosperity.

[_why me]

[u]“The bulk of the population in Western Europe still enjoys the highest living standards in the world, and in the world’s history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Europe

It all depends on where the money is going and into what pocket. Certainly, the average person is not seeing great wealth. Eastern Europe is awash in poverty. As are many western european societies.

And the bulk of the population? Lets look at Britain.

http://policy-practice.oxfam.org.uk/our ... -in-the-uk

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-15242103

Do you really want to have this discussion?

And it is getting worse across europe thanks to marketization and predator capitalism that originated in the United States.

[_why me]

Oh...and in Finland...the seventh happiest country in the world as reported by Forbes:

http://yle.fi/uutiset/poverty_in_finlan ... 0s/5329018

Yep, they are doing really well.